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Coils

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Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:44 pm

Oh man it's like digging a hole for yourself trying to figure out test by others and these dyno test we all see can so easily be tweaked!

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Re: Coils

Post by 13Black » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:34 pm

350matt wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:33 pm
those mapping results are interesting

Meh.
A similar response of mine to folks in the states that say porting does nothing: maybe the work y'all tested was just shoddy workmanship how about that?!
Just because 2 mappers didn't get anywhere doesn't mean that you can't get anywhere.

Plus it's Rotary Motion, so what more do you need to know..
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Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:01 am

Yir such a positive chappy Nick

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Re: Coils

Post by 13Black » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:22 am

i tri
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Re: Coils

Post by 350matt » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:00 am

So do you have any results you want to share Nick?

As I plan to get a copy of Mazda edit and have a tinker myself on mine

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Re: Coils

Post by 13Black » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:10 am

I don't want to go and re-find the results and post them up but have a nose at the efforts of MAP / RR to easily see some more promising results.

Also as someone who clearly understands the fundamentals of internal combustion, you surely don't believe that running fuel in excess of 11:1 on an NA is impossible to improve on?
And surely any tuner that gets a WORSE result than a standard map is clearly not bloody doing something right. You don't alter the AFR, see that it's down on what it was before and go YEP, that's clearly done so I'll leave that where it is and not either a) try something else, or b) revert back to what it was for that load cell / parameter.
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Re: Coils

Post by RenesisRaceBuggy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:02 pm

It is, but you also have to consider that Mazda made the engine that rich up top for good reason - Pip deliberately made ours rich up top when he mapped ours a couple of times for the same reason, it helps cool the chamber and seals if you're running at high rpm for any length of time. Might not be so much of an issue on a road car but Mazda will map it for all eventualities.

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Re: Coils

Post by 350matt » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:18 pm

13Black wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:10 am
I don't want to go and re-find the results and post them up but have a nose at the efforts of MAP / RR to easily see some more promising results.

Also as someone who clearly understands the fundamentals of internal combustion, you surely don't believe that running fuel in excess of 11:1 on an NA is impossible to improve on?
And surely any tuner that gets a WORSE result than a standard map is clearly not bloody doing something right. You don't alter the AFR, see that it's down on what it was before and go YEP, that's clearly done so I'll leave that where it is and not either a) try something else, or b) revert back to what it was for that load cell / parameter.
no you're quite right I don't believe that the stock map cannot be improved upon, even some of the smaller calibration tweaks I'd do I'm sure that would help

like stopping all the retard going on at idle to rein in the idle speed and keep the cat toasty - turn that off for a start
Last edited by 350matt on Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:30 pm

I know that his has probably been thought of and a bad idea, but could we swap the air pump supply to the exhaust manifold std for something with more chill obviously major tweaks the exhaust port and manifold etc.

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Re: Coils

Post by RenesisRaceBuggy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:43 pm

Why?

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Re: Coils

Post by 350matt » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:46 pm

Well potentially you can pump water into the exhaust to give a stronger tuning pulse and greater power

however I don't think the Renesis has much an exhaust tuning pulse as there's no overlap (sadly)

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Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:50 pm

More for a cooling effect than performance and then lean them map out! I know what I mean just not a good at explanations! Anyhoo might try it and see what happens!!!!
Last edited by RobinPZ72 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Coils

Post by 13Black » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:53 pm

Rich up top is a point in its own right and by no means a terrible idea - especially for your requirements I'm sure.

The target AFR in the stock map doesn't correlate with the measured AFR in real life however. You'd have to ask Mazda why this is but I'd hazard a guess that sensor and engine variation is easier to manage by risking it deviating more into an overly rich mixture at the expense of chasing a marginally higher safe power level - than it be run ordinarily in a better (but still safe) state of tune, but only under correct operation, with likely errors swaying the engine to unsafe running parameters.
I'm not saying that's a bad idea or that I'd do it any different either - they've done rather well, clearly! But for RM to claim that you'll never get anywhere or only make it worse or whatever, baloney!

You'll probably find that the car runs 11:1 (0.75 lambda) or richer at anything above 7k - that's fuelling that's even be safe for 400hp FDs at 7k! A tuner that can't improve on that isn't worth their salt - even if it means running mega rich near the limiter and not improving the peak hp number for forum bragging rights.


Also high EGTs are less of a problem for your manifold than your side seals which take a lot of the brunt from the heat.
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Re: Coils

Post by RenesisRaceBuggy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:19 pm

Yes, I can't say for stock as obviously I never ran a standard ECU, but whilst there was an easy 5-6bhp up top from leaning the mixture on ours it's certainly not something I ever wanted to chase - we had enough issues with heat buildup and side seal/springs going soft as it was.


Robin/Matt - I don't think pumping more air into the exhaust manifold is going to do anything bar make your cat run hotter. Same for water. I don't see why you'd even try it tbfh.

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Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:53 pm

I know where your coming from, but I'm sh*t board! I'm looking into changing how the gasses comes out the exhaust ports and the block would be suitable for water cooling!! Would also like to put and EXUP valve copy of the old FZR1000 EXUP style in to, but figuring out out how to time the servo!

This will probably never make it past the test bench, which my misses is ecstatic about!

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Re: Coils

Post by RenesisRaceBuggy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:41 pm

There's not much point unless you had peripheral ports or much larger exhaust ports - but you can't do that because you're limited by the water jackets and flow out of the side exhaust port itself anyway.
You'll never get anything from increasing flow through the exhaust air pumps - it's there just to help the CAT light off faster, nothing else, I binned 'em.

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Re: Coils

Post by warpc0il » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:04 pm

I did have a random thought a few years ago, of trying to use the air pump to inject fresh air (on demand) into the exhaust flow and thereby dilute the emissions from the tailpipes.

In theory, if you could flush sufficient clean air along with the exhaust, then the result might be sufficiently low (in PPM) to pass an emissions test, even with a decat.

However, my rough calculations suggested that the Secondary Air Pump doesn't have enough capacity to achieve this, even at idle, and definitely not at fast idle.

Of course, any attempt to fool the emissions test would be illegal and no one would be stupid enough to try that :roll:
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Re: Coils

Post by 350matt » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:12 pm

RobinPZ72 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:53 pm
I know where your coming from, but I'm sh*t board! I'm looking into changing how the gasses comes out the exhaust ports and the block would be suitable for water cooling!! Would also like to put and EXUP valve copy of the old FZR1000 EXUP style in to, but figuring out out how to time the servo!

This will probably never make it past the test bench, which my misses is ecstatic about!
if you're planning on making your own housings and plates then I dare say there's lot of mods you could to help

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Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:38 pm

That would be cool ass, but would need to win the lottery!!!!!

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Re: Coils

Post by 13Black » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:11 pm

Right on time, RM are now running a competition for free/discounted remaps. Make your damn mind up.
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Re: Coils

Post by 350matt » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:22 pm

they are?
I don't see anything on the rotary motion site?

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Re: Coils

Post by 13Black » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:36 am

Oh it's a FacePageBookPlace thing.


Anyone fancy giving one of these a go for a coil lol


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Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:05 pm

Ha now where talking a bit of fun or are you trying to get me electrocuted!!!!

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