Is it fatal?

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jonnykerm
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Is it fatal?

Post by jonnykerm » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:03 pm

Just after a few opinions here if possible. I was driving my RX8 last week, steady cruising at 40mph and suddenly lost all power, engine warning light flashed and the car cut out, and I can't get it started again. It brought up an error code pf P0302 (Type: Powertrain, Cylinder 2 misfire).

I had it towed to my local garage and they compression tested it (presumably cold as it won't start) and their words to me were: "We have carried out the compression test on your vehicle, unfortunately we have no compression."

It's a 2007 model with 55k on the clock, D585 coils and leads from Rotary Revs fitted in February, and a full service, plugs, oil was done on 18th December 2017. Compression test in February gave readings of the below.

I'm not sure what to do now? I'm not mechanically minded / capable at all.

Thanks in advance for any help / pointers.

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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by Dazza44 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:12 pm

cylinder 2 i believe refers to the rear rotor, when was the spark plugs last changed?,could also be a faulty coil(not unheard of even with the 585s.
im sure more knoweldeable folk will be along to offer more help

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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by untakenname » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:19 pm

They should have got compression of at least one of the two rotors.
Does the engine still turn over and does the car still have a CAT on it? Flashing EML could mean that unburnt fuel was getting into the CAT then cooked it, if the cats still on it then try taking it off and see if it starts.

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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by goodeggbob » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:31 pm

hi there,i have no advice i,m afraid but to me a basic comp test by a specialist usually ends up as a completed certificate with six values normalized at 250rpm.i would be very interested to here from the experts what your figures actually mean.hope all goes well,rob.

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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by jonnykerm » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:05 pm

Spark plugs changed in December 2017.

Car does turn over just doesn’t start. It has a cat on it yes.

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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by qwakers » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:16 pm

i take it the results posted above are previous results, not the ones taken after it wouldnt start?

it would be very unusual for the compression on both rotors to be 0 on all 3 readings. it may well not be a serious issue, but the guy doesnt sound very professional, just telling you there was no compression with no supporting evidence presented...
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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by jonnykerm » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:19 pm

Those results are from Feb when the car was running fine. Yes he’s not said what the results were, just that there was no compression which suggests 0 readings and game over?

They’re doing a cold compression test so assume that’s not very accurate.

Should I get the garage to check all mentioned above despite the new compression reading?

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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by qwakers » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:20 pm

no, id get actual compression readings printed out not just him telling you theres none. then go from there.
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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by qwakers » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:22 pm

its unlikely to go from 6bar to 0 in a few months unless your doing thousands of miles a month or the coils are knackerd.
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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by jonnykerm » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:26 pm

Can you get actual readings though if the car won’t start?

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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by qwakers » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:27 pm

wont be as high as they would be if warm but they should be enough to tell you whats going on
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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by jonnykerm » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:43 pm

A reply to my email requesting the readings - “My foreman has told me that there is no compression at all in any of the cylinders.”

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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by qwakers » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:46 pm

i would take it elsewhere. no matter how knackered the seals are it will have some compression, however low.
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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by Dazza44 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:04 pm

yes as the car only turns over for compression test ,its not running

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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by GraemeC » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:14 pm

I’d be suprised if any garage other than a rotary specialist had a rotary compression tester to hand....
I would get it to a specialist

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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by SeriousSam » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:20 pm

jonnykerm wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:43 pm
A reply to my email requesting the readings - “My foreman has told me that there is no compression at all in any of the cylinders.”
There's your problem - rotaries have no cylinders. Your man doesn't appear to know what he's on about, so you definitely need a specialist to take a look. I know one of our members, minisaki, is north of the border, but I don't know how close he is to you or whether he has a rotary compression tester handy. He does know quite a bit about these cars though, might be worth seeing if he's about.
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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by warpc0il » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:53 pm

The last time someone reported "No compression" the garage had removed all the sparkplugs and then connected their compression tester to each hole, one at a time - just as they would on a piston engine.

However, if you understand the layout of the rotary engine, then it's clear that this will always result in "zero compression" readings on even a perfect engine.

My guess is that you've lost a leading coil/lead/plug or it's an oil burp that's contaminated the MAF, or a bit of debris on the ESS, or a loose fuel pump fuse, or something equally simple.
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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by Rotary Potato » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:39 pm

Do you have the car?

If so, take a spark plug out of each rotor (in turn) and spin it over on the starter.

Listen to the chuff noises it makes. If they are all strong and even then you have some level of compression on each rotor.

If you have CHUFF-CHUFF-chuff-CHUFF-CHUFF-chuff then 1 face of that rotor is poorly, and if you have CHUFF-chuff-chuff-CHUFF-chuff-chuff then 2 faces are poorly.

This obviously doesn't replace a proper compression test, but gives you a hint with no specialist tools at all.
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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by Shagrington » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:20 am

SeriousSam wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:20 pm
I know one of our members, minisaki, is north of the border, but I don't know how close he is to you or whether he has a rotary compression tester handy. He does know quite a bit about these cars though, might be worth seeing if he's about.
minisaki (Ben) is in Paisley and I do think he may have a compression tester, he can also service RX-8s (he does this in his spare time when he gets any, it is not his profession). He's a nice bloke, send him a PM to see if he might be able to help.
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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by PeteH » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:21 am

Just to add to all the other advice, I don't think any rotary can ever produce no compression at all when a proper compression test is carried out. Even if you took all the seals out of the engine, I think it would still record something. And for both rotors to drop from mid-sixes to "nothing" in a few months isn't really possible. You really need to get your car to a proper specialist for a sensible diagnosis.
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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by 350matt » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:08 am

I agree with warpcoil
I'd say its likely they've left the bottom plugs out when doing the compression test

you can use a regular compression test to get you 90% of the way there too


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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by mjrx8 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:55 pm

I was the one who originally tested the compression back in February with a rotary engine compression tester, however I’m over 2hrs return trip to retest as the car can’t be brought to me like it was the last time. Not sure if there is anyone closer on the east coast of Scotland who has a compression tester (know of a few in Aberdeen but again a fair distance from him) who could check for him as only other person I know who has one in central Scotland is (Ben) Minisaki who is even further away from him than I am.
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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by minisaki » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:35 am

It's coming on a trailer to me so I'll have a look :thumleft:
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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by jonnykerm » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:15 pm

It's £150 to ship the car to Ben, if it's fixable great, if it's not, it's another £150 to get it back and then I'll probably bin it, so it will have cost me a fortune to ship it around. Really stumped at what to do!

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Re: Is it fatal?

Post by 350matt » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:21 pm

Buy a compression tester for £25 off amazon / halfords and have a go your self I'd say


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