220whp from an NA '8?

Any form of normally aspirated power mods.
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Dave-B »

Please don't go all that way with such high expectations only to be disappointed. To put it in perspective a strong ported engine with breathing mods would be extremely lucky to make 200hp. Without a map you'll not get over 200hp. Id love to be proved wrong but sadly this is the truth of it.
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by jrmurray1108 »

would be nice to see however, the dyno numbers before his remap side by side :)
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Dave-B »

Jay I had a 19bhp gain from the remap, well worth it when your rebuild's run in
RR Ported, groupB remap, Sparco seats, Toyo manifold & RB catback, de-cat, CC lightened fly & stage 2 clutch, RB f&r ARB's, Cusco zero coilovers, Cusco strut brace f&r, Ksport 8 pots, yellow stuff f&r, Koyo rad & Samco hoses, short shifter, RB ram air duct, RR coils, full aero kit, Eibach spacers, Black rims/Vred's & silver rims/R888, dashhawk, RR sump & rad guards
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by jrmurray1108 »

Cheers Dave, that's quite a chunk...hoping the rest of the parts arrive this week so I can get it dropped off!

Is yours a street or bridge? I'm still a bit torn but leaning toward a bridge as the car isn't a daily. What was your final number in the end?
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Dave-B »

Mines a street port, the final figure was 199. I was a little dissapointed to start with but I could definitely feel the benefits from the remap right across the Rev range. Once out on track you can see the difference between ported and non ported engines, I haven't come across a faster 8 yet. I've done a number of mods since then that I'm sure will have increased that figure.

What I will say is that unlike piston engines rotaries appear to produce very varied power figures, you could have a strong standard engine that produces as much power as a ported engine. I also believe that as capable as the ecu is to relearn trims etc the only way to make the most from porting work however extreme is to perform a remap.

I'm still a bit sceptical over dyno results, different shoot modes and all that, so I take it all with a pinch of salt. I have another 200bhp car that's deffo not as quick as my 8 so I'm happy.
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by jrmurray1108 »

Yeah I get that. The one tangible thing you do know, is that you got a 19bhp increase, to know the increase is good enough for me. Can't wait to get it back on the road, broke in and tuned!
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Dave-B »

Yes that's right an undeniable increase.

Go for the Bridgeport :D
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 »

I really wish I could get a remap done but if Steve is only there on Wednesday during my track day at Oulton Park then I would need to leave the track at some point to get it done and that isn't happening. I'm of the opinion that track days are more fun than dyno runs.

Dave-B, I'm wondering if the figures you are reporting are in Wheel Horsepower ("whp") or Brake Horsepower ("bhp")? There are so many other RX-8's out there that have been dyno'd, and whilst they all vary in power it would seem that the average range is somewhere between 170-190 whp (approx. 200 - 223 bhp) in stock form. Every dyno chart I can find on the web of a ported RX-8 shows them putting down at least 215 whp (approx. 250 bhp) with a street port, and the maximum I have seen is 240 whp (approx. 280 bhp) with insane porting and custom everything. So, is your car putting down 199 whp which would translate into approx. 230 bhp?
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 »

This morning I tried to schedule a remap and dyno with Steve on Wednesday at 3-4pm figuring that would be around the time the track day was concluding. However, he is fully booked Wednesday so I decided to cancel the dyno session on Tuesday since I didn't see much point in it without the remap after reading everyone's posts and seeing that Dave-B got an extra 19hp out of one. So, what will happen is I will book another track day at Oulton Park in 2015 and get a remap at that time, or if I end up vacationing in Snowdonia next year, I will stop at Group B along the way.
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by RX8Head »

Just a quick question is the car still under warranty with Carl as I know in the past if you had a remap done it'd void any warranty you have with him. Might be worth checking if you haven't already.
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Dave-B »

Good decision to wait and get the remap too at a later date. GroupB will explain the dyno results way better than I can, but I'm pretty sure my figures were flywheel power. Enjoy your track day I wish I was coming.
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by macgtech »

That's a shame - was looking forward to seeing before and after figures.

Has anyone got/seen before and after figures for a change to the stock exhaust to decat/backbox (and manifold I suppose). Would be interesting to see 'bang for buck'...
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 »

It's tough to say considering the fact that most people don't go to a dyno after every single mod (let alone the same dyno under the same conditions), but if all of the evidence out there on other rotary enthusiast sites is to be believed, most would expect about 5-10 bhp before a remap from a decat alone. The backbox is a tricky one because like cold air intakes for this car, some backboxes cause a loss of power, some have no change in power, and a few provide a very small increase in power. Someone over on rx8club.com had a full Racing Beat system (including the manifold) and claimed an increase of nearly 15 bhp prior to a remap but his claim wasn't supported by a before/after dyno sheet.

There have been several people who have dyno'd ported RX-8s with various breather mods and an associated remap, and from what I have seen no one except for Dave-B has posted figures lower than 215whp (about 250 bhp) with all of these mods. Of course, this is all dependent on the dyno being used and the calibration factors since some dynos are more conservative than others. A good example is the classic Mustang Dyno vs Dynojet brands in the USA. The Mustang Dynos always show figures that are at least 20% lower than what a Dynojet will spit out. I'm not entirely sure what Group B uses but I would think with Dave-B's mods, if he were to go somewhere else his figures would be significantly higher. After all, Group B posted a dyno chart of a Petitt supercharged RX-8 and the peak hp and tq figures were much lower than what other Petitt supercharged dynos had shown in the past.
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Mods - Apexi PFC @ 1.00-1.06 bar, AEM WI 250cc/min, Knight Sports DP, RE-A 80mm cat, Fujitsubo exhaust, Greddy SMIC, Koyo N-Flow, Ohlins DFVs, poly bushings, Dixcel FP 17" discs , 17"x8" BBS RG-R, Nankang NS-2R, Project Mu pads.

398 Bhp (340 Whp) @ 6,036 RPM, 350-360 lb/ft (299-307 Wlb/ft) @ 2,900 - 6,100 RPM. - 12 Nov 17

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Bulldog »

Dyno dynamics in shoot 2r mode
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 »

It would seem that a Dyno Dynamics dyno reads about 12-20% lower than a Dynojet which is the most common dyno in the USA and would explain the higher figures most US RX-8's that have been dyno'd are showing.

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/vendor ... nojet.html

http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/420 ... s-dynojet/

There are numerous other links out there comparing the differences.
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398 Bhp (340 Whp) @ 6,036 RPM, 350-360 lb/ft (299-307 Wlb/ft) @ 2,900 - 6,100 RPM. - 12 Nov 17

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Bulldog »

Its all relative and based on a transmission loss formula. The temperature of the air effects results.
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Soul »

So after all those arguments with the yanks on FB, their dynos read 12-20% higher? Right.... :)
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Will66 »

Dynos are only useful for tuning and seeing comparative gains. There are too many variables for them to be considered absolute proof.
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

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That was a very purposeful 'right' there Soul :)

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by macgtech »

We have seen differences of upto 15% between dyno's with cars we have run with the same setup/map.

We have also seen some dyno's spitting out total nonsense in terms of wheel hp to flywheel hp ratios...one said we lost 12bhp through the drivetrain on a 600bhp car...I am pretty sure that wasn't correct!

I am not really interested in absolute power - just comparative gains between modifications. Even the tyres (and even tyre pressures) you run can have a difference, so absolute power is meaningless.
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by macgtech »

cib24 wrote:Someone over on rx8club.com had a full Racing Beat system (including the manifold) and claimed an increase of nearly 15 bhp prior to a remap but his claim wasn't supported by a before/after dyno sheet..
What on earth is the point?! How did they measure the power?
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 »

macgtech wrote:
cib24 wrote:Someone over on rx8club.com had a full Racing Beat system (including the manifold) and claimed an increase of nearly 15 bhp prior to a remap but his claim wasn't supported by a before/after dyno sheet..
What on earth is the point?! How did they measure the power?
He claimed it was dyno'd but never produced the results after people requested to see the charts.
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Mods - Apexi PFC @ 1.00-1.06 bar, AEM WI 250cc/min, Knight Sports DP, RE-A 80mm cat, Fujitsubo exhaust, Greddy SMIC, Koyo N-Flow, Ohlins DFVs, poly bushings, Dixcel FP 17" discs , 17"x8" BBS RG-R, Nankang NS-2R, Project Mu pads.

398 Bhp (340 Whp) @ 6,036 RPM, 350-360 lb/ft (299-307 Wlb/ft) @ 2,900 - 6,100 RPM. - 12 Nov 17

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 »

Will66 wrote:Dynos are only useful for tuning and seeing comparative gains. There are too many variables for them to be considered absolute proof.
Of course, but the numbers are still fun to talk about. If we had cars that were capable of putting out monster hp/tq figures then dyno numbers would be taken more seriously by RX-8 owners in general, but obviously our cars are a pain in the ass on the dyno so most people prefer not to talk about it. I take my car to the track and have observed how quick it is in a straight line compared to other RX-8's (at Oulton Park yesterday I was achieving an indicated 8mph extra compared to fellow member tractorboy on the Lakeside straight), but considering the thousands of £'s I have put into this vehicle I want to be able to quantify it's power to help me justify the costs (or P*** me off :mrgreen: ).
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Mods - Apexi PFC @ 1.00-1.06 bar, AEM WI 250cc/min, Knight Sports DP, RE-A 80mm cat, Fujitsubo exhaust, Greddy SMIC, Koyo N-Flow, Ohlins DFVs, poly bushings, Dixcel FP 17" discs , 17"x8" BBS RG-R, Nankang NS-2R, Project Mu pads.

398 Bhp (340 Whp) @ 6,036 RPM, 350-360 lb/ft (299-307 Wlb/ft) @ 2,900 - 6,100 RPM. - 12 Nov 17

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