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Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by v-rex » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:16 pm

qwakers wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:37 pm

... modified standard cat (cat section cut out and pipe welded in its place) ...
So is it essentially a decat most of the time or a reduced standard cat?

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by qwakers » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:28 pm

a decat.

basically a ghetto copy of A single resonated decat.
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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by v-rex » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:18 am

So....

Some really interesting cat company names put on this thread.

HwAoRrDk ( this username took me a few moments to figure out !! ) - the TP cats thing is impressive. Some right proper sleuthing to find that one. Very weird that the don't sell in the UK directly, but amazing find at £160. Shame that thread isn't around anymore. Would have been a good read and would be even better if you get this exhaust directly in the UK.

PeteH - the Jetex cat you have as you say easily the biggest one I've seen at 5 inches around. I'd never even heard of the company before you mentioned it. Interestingly they also do a normal one for the RX8 -

https://jetex.co.uk/product/direct-fit- ... -7-03-1-10

No details of the catalytic internals ( whether it's metal/ceramic cpi etc ) but at £214.85, it doesn't probably satisfy the expensive enough to be good criteria, that people seem to use to rate cats.

BigBlueKnight3k - Seen a couple from Magnaflow -

There is a Racing Beat one which seems to use a 3 inch pipe, along with some new metallic catalyst technology ( I'd be interested if anyone knows about this new tech ),

https://www.racingbeateurope.com/mazda- ... 3568-p.asp

at £642 plus it's louder cheaper brother at £562. Both have at least a years warranty ( I think the first one has 2 even but it's not clear ) provided you have Mazda OEM coils.

https://www.racingbeateurope.com/mazda- ... 2288-p.asp

Funnily enough though in the US and OZ they sell a magnaflow cat as a direct replacement for the OE cat, and it's not cheap ($701) but it's also not metallic. 5 year warranty on that bad boy so they must be pretty confident it works well with RX8 ? Unless US and OZ emissions are different ? Couldn't find a direct magnaflow cat in the UK, other than through other suppliers.

https://www.magnaflow.com/products/4915 ... -converter

Seems alot of people just get the CAT for MOT purposes anyway, and just switch to a decat again ASAP !!
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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:49 am

Some extra points to consider when buying CATs which has not been discussed

* Piping size, OEM is 2.5" and most direct fit replacements are 2.5" the performance midpipes/CATs all seem to be 3"
* Material used, some are mild steel, some Stainless Steel, I would suggest almost all direct replacements are mild steel while the more expensive performance exhausts are Stainless Steel which provide a greater wear characteristics (and look nicer).
* Quality of the flanges, these may vary considerably from type to type.
* Fitment, don't assume "Direct Fit" means that, I cannot comment but there may be issues which some cheaper exhausts.

Our Spec for comparison:

-Beautifully constructed from polished T304 stainless steel and TIG welded joins.
-200 CPI Approved Metallic Sports CAT
-Significant power gains over 2.5 inch exhaust systems and OEM systems
-Compatible with all Rx8 exhaust systems for both the series 1 and series 2.
-Significant weight savings at just 7.5KG
-Additional fitting for AFR gauge sensor.
Last edited by Ryan Rotary Performance on Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:49 am

V-Rex,

You missed one other company option:

http://www.essexrotaryspecialists.com/s ... 8-exhaust/
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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by v-rex » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:57 am

Ryan Rotary Performance wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:49 am
V-Rex,

You missed one other company option:

http://www.essexrotaryspecialists.com/s ... 8-exhaust/
Oh yes, oops. Yes I looked into those before but forgot to include them in the list just now. I guess whilst we are at it Rotary Revs seems to do one at £240 which is an OEM replacement.

Also alot of people used to talk about the Mazda Rotary Parts CAT, but I looked and looked and couldn't find it on their site, unless I am not searching right.

No details of what those CAT's have in terms of internals, material type used or even sizing.

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by v-rex » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:59 am

Ryan Rotary Performance wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:49 am
-Significant power gains over 2.5 inch exhaust systems and OEM systems
What kind of numbers we talking here ? What is significant ?

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:04 am

Rotary Revs also bought the rights to Pettit UK and now therefore sell the Pettit High Flow CAT, this is also a decent system and we would recommend this one also.

The MRP looks like a nice system, its basically an adjusted Racing Beat DeCAT, the CAT will be quality knowing Clive, I would suggest there will be no problems with this one either.
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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:14 am

v-rex wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:59 am
Ryan Rotary Performance wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:49 am
-Significant power gains over 2.5 inch exhaust systems and OEM systems
What kind of numbers we talking here ? What is significant ?
So with the right Catback, as you need to think of the exhaust system as a whole not just the component parts. I would expect anywhere from 10-15HP peak with more torque through the range. but as always there are many factors and each car is different, engine condition plays a huge part as well as other supporting modifications. Helping the engine to breathe more easily is never a bad thing, especially for a Rotary.

On the to list "To Do" is put as freshly RRP rebuilt engine on the dyno with completely standard system and then fit:

RRP MKII Coils
RRP Manifold
RRP Performance CAT
RRP MKII Catback (when ready)
Performance Panel Filter (K&N)
Scoop (RB Copy from Ebay probably)
and then Remap.

So it'll be nice to actually the performance benefit, but as always time is a factor, early next year it will be done :)
Last edited by Ryan Rotary Performance on Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by PeteH » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:14 am

It has to be said that I can't think of any other trader who would start an open discussion on products they sell, then also recommend products from competitors!

There are some great options out there, and some terrible ones. But if you need a cat then the place to start is surely RRP. Everything they do is top quality.

Well done Carl. What a refreshing thread this is.

=D> =D> =D>
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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by v-rex » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:23 am

Ryan Rotary Performance wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:14 am
v-rex wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:59 am
Ryan Rotary Performance wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:49 am
-Significant power gains over 2.5 inch exhaust systems and OEM systems
What kind of numbers we talking here ? What is significant ?
... I would expect anywhere from 10-15HP peak with more torque through the range...
Not bad, 10-15HP is pretty significant for a car rated at 231HP.

Will be interested to hear how the car with all the parts on fared on the dyno for sure...

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by v-rex » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:25 am

PeteH wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:14 am
There are some great options out there, and some terrible ones.
Yes, all of us are hoping to try to avoid the terrible ones, but it's not always easy to figure out what's what when it comes to CAT's.

Thanks again, Carl for starting the thread !!

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by warpc0il » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:06 pm

These were asked earlier but I was on Tapatalk on my phone, so not able to paste the answers...
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=77699#p1165957
OEM cat.png
OEM cat.png (105.31 KiB) Viewed 280 times
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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by New Duke » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:26 pm

v-rex wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:18 am
Seems alot of people just get the CAT for MOT purposes anyway, and just switch to a decat again ASAP !!
Because even though it may not be the best option, it is often the cheapest option.

I'm often surprised how many people buy an RX8 without a cat then get caught out come MOT time. But whether for that reason or another (like a cat having worn out or just wanting to free the exhaust) you can buy a perfectly 'fine' decat for £70 delivered and fit it for free if you know how. Then either buy a cheap cat just for MOTs or store your OEM one for MOTs if you still have it.

At least if people do want to buy a cat then there are now loads of good suggestions in this thread.

My cat sits in bubble wrap, but if I did need a new one for road use then I'd get the RRP 200 cel one, no question. Everything RRP makes so far is well done, well priced and the seller supports our club. That'll do for moi.
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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by v-rex » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:00 pm

New Duke wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:26 pm
Because even though it may not be the best option, it is often the cheapest option.
I thought this idea was out there, but if you think about it, it does make alot of sense. With a cat there is always a danger of it failing and causing havoc, either exhaust or even engine, and the rotary does love not being restricted by a cat at all. No cat has to be the freest flowing option there is. There is probably some sort of probability tree that you can work out, cat * probability of failure vs decat * prob of being caught, that sort of thing.

Of course I personally would never do such a thing, for environmental reasons, if nothing else, but I can understand why some people might contemplate it. ( I just realised this was on the general RX-8 discussion thread .... ;) )

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:11 pm

I think the deCAT scene has gone full circle and folk are now fitting CATs again, certainly true for me. Must be getting old.
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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by New Duke » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:34 pm

v-rex wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:00 pm
Of course I personally would never do such a thing, for environmental reasons, if nothing else, but I can understand why some people might contemplate it. ( I just realised this was on the general RX-8 discussion thread .... ;) )
I'm currently sat in my electric car waiting for it to charge. I've spent about 5 hours sat in it today alone charging by the roadside. So I feel no guilt about emissions on the rare occasions that I drive my RX8 ;)

I only removed the cat because I was genuinely having repeated nightmares about burning to death inside the car due to a clogged cat. Totally unfounded but I really needed to sleep properly!
Ryan Rotary Performance wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:11 pm
I think the deCAT scene has gone full circle and folk are now fitting CATs again, certainly true for me. Must be getting old.
I think you're right about the trend shifting. Not about you getting old though! With increasingly good options for performance cats coming along the case for decats is diminishing.

Oddly though I much prefer the smell of RX8 exhaust without a cat, even to the point of liking it. Weird as that may seem.
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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by v-rex » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:09 pm

New Duke wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:34 pm
I'm currently sat in my electric car waiting for it to charge. I've spent about 5 hours sat in it today alone charging by the roadside.
If only there was an efficient, lightweight, high revving small cubic capacity engine, that could generate a decent amount of horses, that wouldn't be intrusive, but could be used to extend the range and charge the battery as you drive.... :getmecoat:
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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by qwakers » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:15 pm

v-rex wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:09 pm
New Duke wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:34 pm
I'm currently sat in my electric car waiting for it to charge. I've spent about 5 hours sat in it today alone charging by the roadside.
If only there was an efficient, lightweight, high revving small cubic capacity engine, that could generate a decent amount of horses, that wouldn't be intrusive, but could be used to extend the range and charge the battery as you drive.... :getmecoat:
could just stick a genny on a trailer....

Image
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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:06 pm

There is a convo circling around this subject again so thought I'd give it a bump

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by xamtex » Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:55 pm

i took the genuine mazda cat off mine when i saw the invoice in the history i got with the car...it was £1234 plus vat in 2015. it sits in a corner of the garage till mot time.

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by 350matt » Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:55 am

Ryan Rotary Performance wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:14 am
v-rex wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:59 am
Ryan Rotary Performance wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:49 am
-Significant power gains over 2.5 inch exhaust systems and OEM systems
What kind of numbers we talking here ? What is significant ?
So with the right Catback, as you need to think of the exhaust system as a whole not just the component parts. I would expect anywhere from 10-15HP peak with more torque through the range. but as always there are many factors and each car is different, engine condition plays a huge part as well as other supporting modifications. Helping the engine to breathe more easily is never a bad thing, especially for a Rotary.

On the to list "To Do" is put as freshly RRP rebuilt engine on the dyno with completely standard system and then fit:

RRP MKII Coils
RRP Manifold
RRP Performance CAT
RRP MKII Catback (when ready)
Performance Panel Filter (K&N)
Scoop (RB Copy from Ebay probably)
and then Remap.

So it'll be nice to actually the performance benefit, but as always time is a factor, early next year it will be done :)
this will be great to see , any chance that you can do the changes 1 at a time to show the benefit?
I'm presuming that each mod will need a small tweak to the map as well?
Or is that going to wait until the end?

I'm going to try and pin the tail on the donkey here
All gains over stock items
RRP MKII Coils + 2 to 3 bhp
RRP Manifold +3Bhp
RRP Performance CAT + 6Bhp
RRP MKII Catback (when ready) +3 to4
Performance Panel Filter (K&N) + 1
Scoop (RB Copy from Ebay probably) 0 on the dyno but +2 on the road due to ram effect
and then Remap. + 7

So 22-24 Bhp over stock?

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by nightfire10 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:10 am

350matt wrote:
Ryan Rotary Performance wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:14 am
v-rex wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:59 am
What kind of numbers we talking here ? What is significant ?
So with the right Catback, as you need to think of the exhaust system as a whole not just the component parts. I would expect anywhere from 10-15HP peak with more torque through the range. but as always there are many factors and each car is different, engine condition plays a huge part as well as other supporting modifications. Helping the engine to breathe more easily is never a bad thing, especially for a Rotary.

On the to list "To Do" is put as freshly RRP rebuilt engine on the dyno with completely standard system and then fit:

RRP MKII Coils
RRP Manifold
RRP Performance CAT
RRP MKII Catback (when ready)
Performance Panel Filter (K&N)
Scoop (RB Copy from Ebay probably)
and then Remap.

So it'll be nice to actually the performance benefit, but as always time is a factor, early next year it will be done :)
this will be great to see , any chance that you can do the changes 1 at a time to show the benefit?
I'm presuming that each mod will need a small tweak to the map as well?
Or is that going to wait until the end?

I'm going to try and pin the tail on the donkey here
All gains over stock items
RRP MKII Coils + 2 to 3 bhp
RRP Manifold +3Bhp
RRP Performance CAT + 6Bhp
RRP MKII Catback (when ready) +3 to4
Performance Panel Filter (K&N) + 1
Scoop (RB Copy from Ebay probably) 0 on the dyno but +2 on the road due to ram effect
and then Remap. + 7

So 22-24 Bhp over stock?
Looking at that list the ram is best bhp per £
Cheers Steve

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by New Duke » Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:40 am

Probably a good idea to use the numbers in that list as a loose guide. HP gains (if even possible) rely on lots of variables.

If, just for argument sake, you go by that list though then the remap is by far the best bhp per £. Much cheaper at RRP than the scoop and on this this list at least gives much bigger returns. Although you'd want the remap to be the last stage if you don't fancy redoing it later on.

One side effect of the scoop to keep in mind is that it's fabulous at cooling the engine in summer but is a PITA in winter. I have it and it makes the engine take forever to warm up. Below 5 degrees outside the engine even once warmed is barely able to keep up to temp while cruising on motorways. For the money it should really have it's own little VFAD.

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Re: Ceramic CATS and CAT recommendations

Post by nightfire10 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:14 pm

New Duke wrote:Probably a good idea to use the numbers in that list as a loose guide. HP gains (if even possible) rely on lots of variables.

If, just for argument sake, you go by that list though then the remap is by far the best bhp per £. Much cheaper at RRP than the scoop and on this this list at least gives much bigger returns. Although you'd want the remap to be the last stage if you don't fancy redoing it later on.

One side effect of the scoop to keep in mind is that it's fabulous at cooling the engine in summer but is a PITA in winter. I have it and it makes the engine take forever to warm up. Below 5 degrees outside the engine even once warmed is barely able to keep up to temp while cruising on motorways. For the money it should really have it's own little VFAD.
But if anyone is selling one cheap let me know Image
Cheers Steve
And merry Xmas to you all Image

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