Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Place for discussions about the RX-8
User avatar
ChocolateTeapot
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Black Cherry
Location: Jersey
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot »

Hi all.

It's been a while, nice to see some familiar faces are still around.

I only occasionally use the 8 now, and so for a lot of the time the battery is disconnected. The last time it was running was about 3 weeks ago.

To charge the battery, I leave the positive battery lead connected and undo the nut and then remove the negative battery lead, hanging it off to the side (ensuring that it is isolated). I use a trickle charger connected directly to the battery terminals with crocodile clips (leaving the battery in situ in the engine bay). Once charged, I remove the trickle charger crocodile clips from the battery and I replace the negative lead and nip up the nut. I've done this a dozen times.

Today was different, I did all the above steps but as I lowered the negative lead onto the negative terminal of the battery (NB I definitely did not touch anything else, nor did I confuse positive and negative) there was some sparking on the negative lead and then a click that sounded like it came from the general area of the fuse box. I did not notice any smoke or smell, just a click about the volume of someone clicking their fingers softly.

There is no power to interior lights nor to the dash, and turning the key to ignition appears to do nothing, I did NOT attempt to crank it to avoid making matters worse. The wipers activated and the front indicators were on solidly.

I have removed the negative lead and the car is now disconnected again.

Where do I start in fixing this, please? Thank you.
Last edited by ChocolateTeapot on Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
ChrisHolmes
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 28283
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Has thanked: 2567 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChrisHolmes »

So it takes a problem to bring you back to life does it? Only joking mate of course!
Fuse by fuse I reckon starting with the Room Fuse in the passenger footwell.
Good luck, need to dash.
These users thanked the author ChrisHolmes for the post:
ChocolateTeapot (Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:51 am)
Rotary History;

Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black R3
Avatar courtesy of my grandson Cameron
User avatar
ChocolateTeapot
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Black Cherry
Location: Jersey
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot »

Hi Chris, it's been a while hasn't it? Nice new motor ;)

Thanks for the tip, I'll have a go.

__________________________________

What's the likelihood of having made a very expensive mistake? Like frying the ECU say? Help put my mind at rest! Thanks, all.
User avatar
ChrisHolmes
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 28283
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Has thanked: 2567 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChrisHolmes »

Cheers John, I don’t think you will have fried anything.
Rotary History;

Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black R3
Avatar courtesy of my grandson Cameron
User avatar
ChocolateTeapot
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Black Cherry
Location: Jersey
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot »

Troubleshooting: I have now run a multimeter, in continuity mode, across all the mini fuses and the JCASE fuses. I found one which appeared to be blown in that I was not getting a beep in continuity mode, that was the 20 amp 'audio' fuse in the cabin fusebox (this has now been changed for a new one). All other fuses passed the continuity test, including the 120 'main' fuse in the top left hand corner of the engine bay fusebox.

I have NOT tested the relays - in short, because I don't know how to. Any tips for testing these (if considered necessary) would be appreciated.

Symptoms: it would appear from a quick review, as soon as the battery is connected the only electrics that are working are the indicators in all four corners (which are solid on) and the windscreen wipers (which are just flailing wildly despite being in the 'off' position on the stalk).

Next steps: any thoughts on how to proceed, please? Thanks again.
Last edited by ChocolateTeapot on Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by warpc0il »

It sounds like one (or more) circuit has got a short to earth, or is at least taking way more power than expected.

It's not unusual to get a tiny spark when you re-connect the -ve as there's always something waiting to take power, if only the alarm and audio systems, plus the courtesy light if you've left a door or boot open

Starting with the basics...
- has the car got any electrical modifications? e.g. Bluetooth or Aux input on the audio, engine gauges, etc?
- has it got electric seats?
- what voltage is your voltmeter reading across the battery?
- Is the battery charged as marked; +ve & -ve? (It is possible to reverse charge a battery)
- what was the last thing you did before disconnecting the battery last time?
- how long has the battery been disconnected and charging?

- do you play CD's and could there be one stuck in the player?
- do you have led interior light bulbs?
- anything plugged into the ODB port?
These users thanked the author warpc0il for the post:
ChocolateTeapot (Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:51 am)
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
User avatar
ChocolateTeapot
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Black Cherry
Location: Jersey
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot »

Thanks very much, Dave. I was going through your list step by step, disconnecting/reseating stuff and then I came to your point about running the multimeter across the battery. At first I thought I was going mad, but having checked several other batteries, including other car and household batteries, it looks like the battery is reverse polarised. I don't know how that has happened, but having triple-checked, I do think that is the case. I'm screwed, aren't I?
User avatar
qwakers
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9053
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:56 pm
RX-8: Turbo
Colour: Nordic Green
Location: cornwall
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 539 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by qwakers »

no, try a new battery. you MIGHT have done damage, but you have a good chance that blown fuses are the extent of your issues.

no promises, mind...
User avatar
SeeJay
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 3835
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:17 pm
RX-8: R3
Colour: Sparkling Black
Location: Nottingham
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 109 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by SeeJay »

Isn't the risk of this happening the reason it's usually advised to completely disconnect a battery before charging :?: :-k

Hopefully a new battery will be all that's required..
2008 Sparkling Black R3 Japspeed Sportcat & Toyo Catback Drilled/grooved discs Simota Induction Kit D585 Coils Braided S/S lines Polished Engine Bay DRL's 2011 Spec Gearbox LED Side & fogs Calibre GT-R rims Michelin Pilot Sport 3 255/35 19 Nissan GTR spoiler RacingBeat ARB's Tein coilovers BHR motor mounts Amemiya Grille CL RC5 pads
User avatar
Shagrington
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 32772
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:54 am
RX-8: 192
Colour: Sunlight Silver
Location: Kent (out in the sticks - nothing urban here)
Has thanked: 266 times
Been thanked: 320 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by Shagrington »

:welcome: back :) Were you using a sonic screwdriver and had it on the wrong setting? I understand that can sometimes reverse the polarity. :unibrow:



Sorry, couldn't help myself, hopefully a new battery will be all that's needed.
'Grington.
former Club Treasurer 2010-18 (now finally retired) \:D/
Silver 192 green interior LEDS, Nordic Green hoop spoiler, roof inserts and wheels Silver Stripes (now finally retired) :cry:
User avatar
ChocolateTeapot
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Black Cherry
Location: Jersey
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot »

Hi Shaggy, long time no see! I should pop to a Surrey meet at some point when I'm over again!
User avatar
GreySilver Beast
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 64953
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:57 pm
Location: Somewhere in the UK
Has thanked: 1581 times
Been thanked: 365 times

Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by GreySilver Beast »

Crikey a stranger from the past and :welcome: back to the RX-8OC :thumleft:

You still keeping the RX-8 at your parents place :?:

Hope you keeping well in the Tax Haven :P
GreySilver Beast-Test Drives Unlimited (Nigel)
Club Member from 2006 - present
Events Team from 2015 - 2024
Events Coordinator from 2017 - 2023
Administrator from 2012 - present RX-8 Owners Club UK
Tesla M3LR AB 363 AWD " Blue Beast "
User avatar
Shagrington
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 32772
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:54 am
RX-8: 192
Colour: Sunlight Silver
Location: Kent (out in the sticks - nothing urban here)
Has thanked: 266 times
Been thanked: 320 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by Shagrington »

ChocolateTeapot wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:22 pm
Hi Shaggy, long time no see! I should pop to a Surrey meet at some point when I'm over again!
Absolutely, the meets are still going strong. :thumleft:
'Grington.
former Club Treasurer 2010-18 (now finally retired) \:D/
Silver 192 green interior LEDS, Nordic Green hoop spoiler, roof inserts and wheels Silver Stripes (now finally retired) :cry:
User avatar
ChocolateTeapot
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Black Cherry
Location: Jersey
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot »

GreySilver Beast wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:31 pm
Crikey a stranger from the past and :welcome: back to the RX-8OC :thumleft:

You still keeping the RX-8 at your parents place :?:

Hope you keeping well in the Tax Haven :P
Hi, Nigel, long time no see. Was driving a GT86 the other day and it brought you to mind.

What are you driving these days?

Yes, the 8 (that is unless "He's no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet his maker!" etc.) still adorns my parents' driveway.
Last edited by ChocolateTeapot on Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
ChocolateTeapot
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Black Cherry
Location: Jersey
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot »

All, update on status.

After much hand-wringing yesterday afternoon and getting a fresh pair of eyes (and a fresh multimeter!) it really does look like the battery's polarity has somehow reversed - no doubt through my own negligence (I didn't earn my username for nothing). So, I've popped out this morning to get a fresh battery and as soon as there's a break in the rain I'm going to drop it in and see how we get on.

Wish me luck!


____________

Daniel
PeteH
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 5849
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:26 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Custom
Location: West Sussex
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 367 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by PeteH »

warpc0il wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:15 pm
- Is the battery charged as marked; +ve & -ve? (It is possible to reverse charge a battery)
Just when I think Dave has finally lost it, he goes and puts it in the back of the net! Great suggestion (I'd have never gone with that) =D>

Mr Teapot, good luck with the new battery. I'd be checking your relays if you still have problems. Hopefully your alternator will be OK since you didn't crank it, but I think they have a diode, which you might have blown.
These users thanked the author PeteH for the post:
ChocolateTeapot (Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:51 am)
User avatar
ChocolateTeapot
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Black Cherry
Location: Jersey
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot »

Just been out to the 8 with the new battery, re-tested all the fuses, including the 120, no luck.

I get lights on the dash ONLY, idiot lights come on, airbag light goes off as normal but I noted that the needles all swing up and then down once when I first turn the key to IGN. Tried twice, same behaviour.

Hazard warning lights come on if you press the button above the head unit, side lights come on if you twist the stalk to 'on'. That looks about it for electrics, no head unit, no climate control (including the red screen above the head unit), no central locking or alarm, no interior lights, the aftermarket accessories I have including the adjustable suspension and water / oil temp gauges do not turn on. I can hear the fuel pump priming (little hum when you turn on IGN).

The car does NOT crank, nothing, no attempt whatsoever, no drain on all power like you would see with cranking.

Okay, so Pete says relays and the alternator. Let's start with relays, how can I test those, please? Thanks.

Any other tips greatly appreciated at this trying time.

____________________

Daniel
User avatar
GreySilver Beast
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 64953
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:57 pm
Location: Somewhere in the UK
Has thanked: 1581 times
Been thanked: 365 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by GreySilver Beast »

Am sure there is something else you have to do when the battery has been flat on an RX-8 :!:

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

GreySilver Beast-Test Drives Unlimited (Nigel)
Club Member from 2006 - present
Events Team from 2015 - 2024
Events Coordinator from 2017 - 2023
Administrator from 2012 - present RX-8 Owners Club UK
Tesla M3LR AB 363 AWD " Blue Beast "
User avatar
ChocolateTeapot
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Black Cherry
Location: Jersey
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot »

GreySilver Beast wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:48 am
Am sure there is something else you have to do when the battery has been flat on an RX-8 :!:

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Thanks, Nigel, I know there's (i) the full left lock -> full right lock -> centre on the wheel procedure for traction control and then (ii) letting it idle with everything turned on so it can re-learn idle, but I haven't even got that far yet: can't even crank. :(
These users thanked the author ChocolateTeapot for the post:
GreySilver Beast (Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:02 pm)
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by warpc0il »

There are a number of components that won't like reverse voltage, including:
- PCM
- keyless entry unit
- audio system
- alternator
- a/c controller
- ABS/TC ECU
- Power Steering ECU
- fuel pump
- airbags
- ...

actually the list goes on.

You could try pulling the fuses, both in the engine bay and the passenger footwell, for all the secondary systems, e.g. all those not require to start and run the engine, then try reconnecting the power and see what happens.

If the engine starts then you know that the problem(s) are with the secondary systems.
If the engine doesn't start then you need to check if you've got sparks or fuel.
These users thanked the author warpc0il for the post:
ChocolateTeapot (Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:12 pm)
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
User avatar
ChocolateTeapot
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Black Cherry
Location: Jersey
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot »

Okay, I can have a go - just to be clear please, I'm pulling FUSES only, right? I'm leaving the relays alone?

Thanks very much for the continued support.
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by warpc0il »

Yes, just fuses to isolate those circuits
These users thanked the author warpc0il for the post:
ChocolateTeapot (Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:20 pm)
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
User avatar
ChocolateTeapot
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Black Cherry
Location: Jersey
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot »

Alright, understood, I'll be back in a bit with an update. Thank you.
User avatar
ChocolateTeapot
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Black Cherry
Location: Jersey
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot »

Okay, I'm back - as recommended, I pulled everything that wasn't associated with the engine, so that's all the interior fuses, the power steering fuse (inside the positive battery terminal - I tried it with, and without), and most of the engine bay fuses. Nothing, in fact the behaviour is identical whether all the fuses are in or all the fuses are out (except for the hazards and the headlights).

I got one, teeny tiny little crank, probably half a second's worth on ONE occasion, and that was it. After that, nothing.

I left in:
IG (30A)
IG Key (15A)
Fuel Pump (20A)
ETV (15A)
EGI comp1 (10A)
EGI comp2 (10A)
EGI INJ (15A)
(any more I should have left in, or which I should have taken out?)

To summarise: I have illumination in the dash, I have idiot lights, it sounds like the fuel pump is priming, but no crank, therefore nothing else. As stated before, I am seeing a single sweep (up, then down) on all the gauges. That's about all there is to report. :(
Last edited by ChocolateTeapot on Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
GreySilver Beast
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 64953
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:57 pm
Location: Somewhere in the UK
Has thanked: 1581 times
Been thanked: 365 times

Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by GreySilver Beast »

Give Luke Murdoch Murdoch's Rotary Specialist a call on this Number - 07415220781 Daniel :thumleft:

Quite a few of us including myself highly recommend him and he will come to you to fix the car =D> =D> =D> =D>
These users thanked the author GreySilver Beast for the post:
ChocolateTeapot (Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:42 pm)
GreySilver Beast-Test Drives Unlimited (Nigel)
Club Member from 2006 - present
Events Team from 2015 - 2024
Events Coordinator from 2017 - 2023
Administrator from 2012 - present RX-8 Owners Club UK
Tesla M3LR AB 363 AWD " Blue Beast "