Adrian Flux Complaints

[SubbyG00n]

There's a thread from 2010 that was locked but AF seemed to give no response about it.
My girlfriend had a very similar issue with AF. She took out a policy a few days before we went on holiday for a month and on the phone was told that there was nothing required to be completed and returned as she had specifically asked since we were gunna be in the Carribbean. Anyway to cut a long story short the same thing happened, they wanted a mods list and were gunna cancel her insurance if she didn't send it. She had already gave the list over the phone. We had to waste some of our holiday time doing this.

Anyway panic was averted and the insurance kept running.

I now have AF insurance on my RX8 and i have a fully comp policy £316/yr for which has an estimated mileage of 3000miles/yr which is accurate. However, after having 2 rebuilds this year and being told to bed the car in 3000 miles after the second rebuild I've been lending my car to other people to add miles on to it cos I wont do that many miles, i'm simply not home enough and i don't commute, nevermind not being able to afford the fuel, haha. Anyway I emailed AF asking about this saying how does it work since I'm not doing all those extra miles and they said that all they can do is go by my stated mileage at the start of the policy then the mileage at the end and if it's gunna be more than 3k then i need to pay money to increase the estimated annual mileage - even if i'm not driving it!!! This doesn't seem fair to me and they want an extra £78 to increase to a 7500 mile/yr policy. That's a 25% premium increase, seems a lot, considering that I'm not the one driving.
I even said that lots of miles are off the road and this doesn't seem to matter

[Adrian Flux]

Hi,
Unfortunately there is no way we can determine who's is actually driving the vehicle so all we physically can go on is the mileage reading. I appreciate it's unfortunate but there wouldn't be anything we can do with regards to this.
If you wanted to PM me your details I'm happy to take a look at the quotation though to see if there is anything I can do regarding the premium increase to change the mileage. Do you think the car will definitely cover 7500 miles?
Regards,
Dan.

[SubbyG00n]

I don't know if the car will cover 7,500 miles. I certainly wont do that many but i regularly let my girlfriend use my car and recently friends etc to get the miles on it for the engine.
Anyway I've inboxed you.

[Vian]

If you're letting friends drive it then you're lucky your insurance isn't higher still now you've told them.

[Bulldog]

Eh? His friends are presumably driving his car on their own policies and not his limited miles policy. No idea why you think that has anything to do with his insurance.

I personally will never insure my car with Adrian flux due to them auto renewing my policy and talking the money out of my account almost a week before it was due then talking 10 working days to refund the money once I told them to cancel the policy for unapologetic talking funds from my account both without my consent or knowledge when I had specially told them not to. I also made a formal complaint about their shoddy business practices to the Financial services ombudsman.

I am happy to pay more reputable customer focused insurers more for better customer service and transparent business dealings. Decent companies will listen to your actual insurance needs rather than saying 'sorry nothing we can do'

[Vian]

It shouldn't, but an insurer might consider the risk of a claim to be higher.

I don't see the issue here, they can only go on mileage, it's not their problem that he doesn't do them himself.

[RX8Head]

Yep no real easy way to tell under who's insurance the milage is being done under can see the problem Adrian Flux or any insure might have proving what milage is done under what insurance policy.
Just a word of warning if someone else is using your car their insurance will only likely cover them 3rd party on another car and in some cases won't even insure them to driver another car.

[Vian]

And why they might consider the risk of a claim to be higher. They might even decide to investigate if there is one.

[Bulldog]

The issue is that they dont trust their customer to tell them he is only doing a limited number of miles. My insurer listens to me. All of my policies allow me to drive other peoples cars 3rd party. If theres a crash when someone else is driving then they would use their policy not the OPs so how is there any increased risk to the OPs insurer. Lot of misunderstanding of insurance going on here.

I have no sympathy for AFs view they need to trust their customer not a milometer.

[Vian]

Because someone who consistently lends their car to friends plural is a higher risk, and given they would only be covered third party there is the potential for a fraudulent claim.

[SubbyG00n]

Vian, sorry, but that' a load of rubbish.
I'm 30 years old and have drove for 13 years without a claim. This is one of the slower and cheaper (to purchase, not to run) cars I've had in recent years and me (reluctantly) letting others drive does not increase my chances of a claim as they are using their own insurance.
I have 3 different insurance policies that all allow me to drive other vehicles so TBF I could be doing millions of miles in other people's cars under third party insurance despite mine being estimated at 3000 miles.
When sold the policy it was not advertised as a "LIMITED MILEAGE POLICY", I was just asked how many miles I'd expect to do, and that was under 3000 as I have 2 other vehicles of my own and my girlfriend's car that i occationally drive as well and even company vehicles on top of that so i really don't do many miles. This has not changed. What has changed is the odometer reading and apparently I get penalised for this.
If i'd known any of this before i took out the policy i would have probably put the miles higher from the initial quote, however back then i was not expecting to have to bed in the engine several times before i could take it on track (it's my main track car). I really don't like to have other people drive my car, but that is preferable to me having to spend days on end driving at 5k or below when I have nowhere to drive to. My girlfriend has been driving it daily when I'm away working and a couple of my mates have on some long journeys, but beleive me i hate it but my other option is sell the car. I usually use my pick up when home too as I take my dog everywhere with me and that just doesn't work in the RX8.

RX8Head, I know how the insurance works with other people driving. If they crashed I'd just have to take the loss. An RX8 can be picked up for under a grand and most the money i've spent on this has been on the engine so transferable parts. This is the reason I bought an RX8. Cheap track slag. £20 for a 2nd hand bumper etc.

I was coming here just to put some closure on this thread after my PM conversation with Adrian Flux. Essentially they said there's nothing they can do as they are a third party and it's the underwriters who apply the fee and they only go on odometer reading. I was curious what would have happened if my speedo broke and i fitted new clocks with 100k on them but i didn't get an answer to that question.
I'm now gunna price up what's cheaper, taking out a new policy and cancelling the old one or just paying the fees. Since I'm 10+ years NCB on 2 seperate policies losing a few months is neither here or there for the NCB POV as it's maxed anyway.

[Vian]

Insurers assess on the basis of risk, and nothing else. If your behaviour counts as increasing the risk, then they will charge more. How you as an individual behave is supremely irrelevant, it's whether it attracts higher numbers of claims. So no not rubbish at all, the facts of life.

[J2daG1990]

If it were me I would have just given them a stated current mileage 5,000 more than what my odometer read... and made sure I had met the given mileage before the next MOT was due....

[mzivtins]

Insurers assess on the basis of risk, and nothing else. If your behaviour counts as increasing the risk, then they will charge more. How you as an individual behave is supremely irrelevant, it's whether it attracts higher numbers of claims. So no not rubbish at all, the facts of life.

Your understanding of risk is wrong.

Mitigating factors lower risks. The mitigating factor of your friends driving your car is that their insurance has it covered, their cover deems them a low enough risk to insure them. For the owners insurance, it is no more risk to have someone else drive the vehicle because it does not affect their policy. The risk is NOT theirs at all.

Don't just take my word for it, i work in business intelligence and built the risk captures and data warehousing behind it for the market leading insurance broker in this country... that, and some random free-toy system that some of you may be aware of...

[Vian]

Insurers assess on the basis of risk, and nothing else. If your behaviour counts as increasing the risk, then they will charge more. How you as an individual behave is supremely irrelevant, it's whether it attracts higher numbers of claims. So no not rubbish at all, the facts of life.

Your understanding of risk is wrong.

Mitigating factors lower risks. The mitigating factor of your friends driving your car is that their insurance has it covered, their cover deems them a low enough risk to insure them. For the owners insurance, it is no more risk to have someone else drive the vehicle because it does not affect their policy. The risk is NOT theirs at all.

Don't just take my word for it, i work in business intelligence and built the risk captures and data warehousing behind it for the market leading insurance broker in this country... that, and some random free-toy system that some of you may be aware of...

Not so if the incidence of claims when they do so is higher due to the risk of fraud, particularly given their cover will only be third party.

[mzivtins]

Third party is diminished risk overall as it only covers third part, not your vehicle.

It makes perfect sense what we are saying, pros and cons, risks and mitigation's.

I didn't make up the footnote btw, these aren't opinions, that is currently how the risk model works.

[J2daG1990]

Because someone who consistently lends their car to friends plural is a higher risk, and given they would only be covered third party there is the potential for a fraudulent claim.

This wouldn't have any effect on the car owner's insurance premium at all.
This is not something that the insurance company ask you when you take out cover nor do you have to tell them.
It is down to whoever is driving the car at the time to make sure that they have their own cover.
The only way this would increase premiums is due to the extra mileage being put on the car by other drivers so as stated you wouldn't get a discount for claiming to do 3000 per year.

EDIT - I am not an expert but maybe Adrian Flux can comment in regards to when someone needs to be listed as a named driver on the policy?

[Vian]

And no one would dream of claiming on their own insurance when a friend has crashed their car borrowing it, because that never happens, and insurers aren't remotely interested in such things and never factor that in. Got it.

[mzivtins]

And no one would dream of claiming on their own insurance when a friend has crashed their car borrowing it, because that never happens, and insurers aren't remotely interested in such things and never factor that in. Got it.

Now you're talking about things that have no quantifiable meaning, cannot be planned against or modeled.

These kind of UNKNOWN UNKNOWNS are modeled collectively as a portion of risk globally against each policy bucket.

This will be why premiums are expensive, or at least one of the reasons.

[Vian]

I never said a thing about modelling anything, or asking about it in advance. I was making the point it's hardly a great idea to go and tell the insurer you're doing it.

[SubbyG00n]

It's a fine idea Vian. I'm not in the business of fraudulant insurance claims. Wouldn't dare risk my NCB anyway, even if i was the one who crashed I highly doubt I'd be claiming, it's not worth it on such a cheap to buy car. If I was an insurer I'd be a bit concerned about insuring you though, given that you think that sort of practice is acceptible.

If it were me I would have just given them a stated current mileage 5,000 more than what my odometer read... and made sure I had met the given mileage before the next MOT was due....

I wasn't expecting to have to do 4k of bed in miles when i took the policy out. Also I'm not trying to trick the insurance people, I'm being honest and it's biting me in my arse as usual, haha. "Honesty is the best policy", perhaps the worst thing my parents drummed into me as a kid

[Bulldog]

When it comes to renew give Competition car insurance a ring. They are humans. They wont ask you to take a load of pictures of your car and its speedo, they wont ask you to send you a copy of your license .. they in fact treat you as presumed honest as opposed to AF who assume your dishonest.

[Paddy2691]

Adrian Flux, along with I'm sure all other insurers don't look into the policy in that much detail unfortunately. Simply put the more miles your doing the higher chance there is of an accident, so the higher risk you are. They can't tell whose doing what miles on the car and the odometer is the only way of telling.
Insurers can't trust any customers as the sheer amount that lie is a huge proportion just to try and lower their premium so unfortunately everyone has to be treated the same.

[Bulldog]

Paddy your wrong. My insurance company simply looked at the fact I have 4 cars and trusted that I'm not doing 100,000 miles a year in my rx-8 which has 5 complimentry track days .. Common sense over jobs worth like bureaucratic processes designed to catch out the dishonest

I've got 3 max no claims discount policies im a professional in my 40s I dont expect to be treated like I'm trying to catch a saving by lying which would invalidate my insurance anyway

[SubbyG00n]

I'll check out that Competition car insurance today if they give 5 complimentary track days! It costs about £100 per track day to insure so that could be worthwhile cancelling my AF policy for. I'll see how the numbers add up.