R3 Gearbox

[alisdairm]

The Synchros on my box are starting to get a bit crunchy on certain gear changes.

I have an early R3 (2008) so I am aware of the issue with these boxes.

I know you can fit an S1 6 speeder with minor mods (electrical gear position sensor, I believe) but would far rather stay with an R3 box.

There is one local to me from a 2009 car, but the seller has no more info that that, other than its definitely an R3 box.

I'm concerned it will have the same weak synchros I have, and I'll only find this out after I've paid a garage to swap out the trannies.

So, is there any identifying stamps/markings on the R3 gearbox to show if its an early or late model box?

From the 'Changing gearbox oil' thread, I can see there is noticeable differences between the S1 5 speed, S1 6 speed, and R3

[osman]

If the car has the larger side mirrors is the easiest way to tell i believe usually after 2010
R3 gearbox gearing is much better than standard s1 box also, i managed to knock off 2 seconds 100-200kph gps by just changing to r3

[Lemon]

If the car has the larger side mirrors is the easiest way to tell i believe usually after 2010
R3 gearbox gearing is much better than standard s1 box also, i managed to knock off 2 seconds 100-200kph gps by just changing to r3

remember that R3s also have a higher final drive as well.

[osman]

If the car has the larger side mirrors is the easiest way to tell i believe usually after 2010
R3 gearbox gearing is much better than standard s1 box also, i managed to knock off 2 seconds 100-200kph gps by just changing to r3

remember that R3s also have a higher final drive as well.

Yup i had the r3 diff before the gearbox was installed, the s1 gearbox ratios make it fall flat once you change into 4th even with the 4.77 gears

[350matt]

might be worth trying the latest redline lightweight gear oil the 70/ 75W
I've switched to it on my S1 and its much better
https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-197431-red ... 0w75w.aspx

[Milos_Balunovic]

The Synchros on my box are starting to get a bit crunchy on certain gear changes.

Have you tried adjusting the 'box, as per the instructions?

As an OC member you have full access to the Technical FAQ, which includes this document, replicated here for convenience.

Mazda P66M Transmission 3-4 ADJUSTMENT MANUAL.pdf

You should also contact any Mazda franchised dealer and have them lookup the Electronic Service Record for your car.
This will identify if the synchros have already been replaced or, if the car build falls within the VIN range to qualify for a free replacement.

[tvrgriffith]

I had the same problem with my R3 (2009). Synchro crunch going into 6th. Changed oil for redline but no improvement. 5th started to crunch (unless you went in slowly). Put in "Xado revitalizant EX120" with fresh oil. The difference after 50 miles is amazing. No synchro crunch in 5th or 6th even on quick changed. Gearbox feels as it should. I was sceptical but thought it was worth a go before taking the box out to be repaired. Glad I did!
It's a small tube to squirt in through the filler hole. Take out a little oil first , add it, then top up, or add it to fresh oil before you put it in. This is easier than trying to put it in whilst oil is dripping out.

[DrewR3]

I had the same problem with my R3 (2009). Synchro crunch going into 6th. Changed oil for redline but no improvement. 5th started to crunch (unless you went in slowly). Put in "Xado revitalizant EX120" with fresh oil. The difference after 50 miles is amazing. No synchro crunch in 5th or 6th even on quick changed. Gearbox feels as it should. I was sceptical but thought it was worth a go before taking the box out to be repaired. Glad I did!
It's a small tube to squirt in through the filler hole. Take out a little oil first , add it, then top up, or add it to fresh oil before you put it in. This is easier than trying to put it in whilst oil is dripping out.

Good Evening TvrGrittiths, good to see you have created an account and taken an interest in some topics with a product you have had experience with. Perhaps you could introduce yourself through our welcome thread and update your location info etc to see if there is any members or meets nearby.

May I ask how you came accross this product? It is not one I have heard of before?

[tvrgriffith]

Hello
I came across it through internet forums. Subaru in particular as they seem to suffer with synchro problems as well. There are a lot of positive reviews. I purchased it through eBay. Wasn't expecting much but I have been amazed how quickly it solved the synchro problems. It's covered 300 miles now and feels like new.

[warpc0il]

I would be very wary with any product that reduced the friction below that expected with the specified oil.

The S1 6-speed can be destroyed by just using GL-4/5 or GL-5, rather than the GL-4, as the synchros rely on that predicted friction.

The 5-speed is much less fussy.

The S2/R3 seems to be less sensitive to oil specification but the synchros are infamous for being fragile - very early R3s would have 'box internals replaced under warranty.

Sent from my SM-G398FN using Tapatalk

[Milos_Balunovic]

Warpc0il, isn't the GL-5 compatible oil a problem becouse of aditive that straight on just eats bronze sinchros even when stationary? Ie the damage to the engine comes from chemical reaction.

I doubt the damage is coused by mechanical actions as consequnce from friction reducing, or pressure capacity increasing aditives.

[goodeggbob]

Hello
I came across it through internet forums. Subaru in particular as they seem to suffer with synchro problems as well. There are a lot of positive reviews. I purchased it through eBay. Wasn't expecting much but I have been amazed how quickly it solved the synchro problems. It's covered 300 miles now and feels like new.

Intresting, please keep us updated on how you progress. Do you have/had a subaru aswell?

I did have a look on Amazon after your post. Did i read that something about the treatment being completed after 1k miles? Does that mean you will be dropping the oil to replace or does it stay in? I only scan read it, I have a 2010 with the revised syncros, fingers crossed I do not encounter the issue.

Also, Thank you for updating your info. You are actually up by my me which makes a nice change as not many in North Wales. Also you are ideally placed for the Shropshire monthly meet. I passed right by you on the way to Oswestry on Friday.

[Milos_Balunovic]

I would advise against any of these magical claim aditives. Yes, they do work on some metals, they do reduce friction (as proven by single arm jack), but with others they can reduce the life of them. Also a lot (most) increase corrosion (ie decrease anticorrosive properties of gearbox oil).. have seen few on steel gears that rusted sitting within the oil.

There is no MAGICal aditive that solves all the issues. for some, yes it can be argued that they are expensive and thus didnt made it to cheap oil. but why would you buy cheap oil to add aditive to it. higher quality oil besides being made of higher quality base oil will have better additives.
MoS2 is one of these additives which is expensive to add to the oil...........

[tvrgriffith]

No,not got a Subaru.
I wasn't really expecting much after 1k miles, but the difference after 50 was amazing. I felt it improving after 20. They state it doesn't interfere with the oil spec so should stay gl4.
Warpcoil- rather than decreasing the friction,it seems to give the synchros the clutch they have lost/need.
I asked Mazda but they say my car doesn't qualify for the gearbox recall so this was a last ditch attempt before repair.
I will keep you posted if anything untoward happens .
DrewR3- where and when is the Shropshire meeting?

[Milos_Balunovic]

Im happy it helped you but keep an eye for how it behaves.

I don't believe anything they write, when you need to give money based on "trust me bro", I always become suspicious. 1st of all, they don't have TDS (technical data sheet) and more importantly SDS (safety data sheet). if this is not published the product was not tested by any certified laboratory, and they didn't want to spent any money on safety specs...

[Milos_Balunovic]

Warpc0il, isn't the GL-5 compatible oil a problem becouse of aditive that straight on just eats bronze sinchros even when stationary? Ie the damage to the engine comes from chemical reaction.

I doubt the damage is coused by mechanical actions as consequnce from friction reducing, or pressure capacity increasing aditives.

There may be an issue with bronze corrosion but specifically the problem with the 6-speed is surface friction.

Following multiple failures after members "upgraded" from Fuch GL-4 to GL-4/5 product, we engaged with Fuch Oils, sending them a sample failed box.

They commissioned an independent investigation by a transmission engineering company.

Malcolm Casey (one of the victims) and myself were then invited to spend the day with Fuch, including a visit to the investigating company.
They had the complete gearbox internals stripped down across the boardroom table and had performed detailed analysis.

The conclusion was clear. The damage was caused by the oil "being too slippery" and not allowing the synchro cones to correctly engage.

Subsequently Fuch withdrew they GL-4/5 product and recommenced production of their GL-4 alongside a new GL-5.

There was a full and detailed visit report shared with the forum at the time but unfortunately it was removed by automated platform housekeeping back when we were short on server resources.

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[DrewR3]

DrewR3- where and when is the Shropshire meeting?

I believe it is Friday the 14th of Oct, having just miss this months. Please see this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=99&t=79486

For shropshire meet, it moves each month rotating through 4 venues. last one was Oswestry, think it is Whitchurch this time? They are not always the clearest thread as we keep just the one running and update the first page with details and the title. Any of the meets or events on the club, the first post is usually updated and the best place to start.

[Milos_Balunovic]

...
The conclusion was clear. The damage was caused by the oil "being too slippery" and not allowing the synchro cones to correctly engage.
...

I believe you sad it got lost.

my comment re bronze wear is base on Renault gearboxes suffering from (i thought) same problem.

that oil (elf nfj) is most likely very good for mazdas as they share very similar material and behavior if other oil is used (heavy shifting, worn synchros etc).

[Milos_Balunovic]

Following multiple failures after members "upgraded" from Fuch GL-4 to GL-4/5 product, we engaged with Fuch Oils, sending them a sample failed box.

They commissioned an independent investigation by a transmission engineering company.

.....................................

There was a full and detailed visit report shared with the forum at the time but unfortunately it was removed by automated platform housekeeping back when we were short on server resources.

Actually Dave, the story of my gearbox saga did survive! It can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=46270

The findings from our meeting with Fuchs are summarised on page 4.

[Milos_Balunovic]

Thanks Malcolm.

Had it been hiding there all along or did it get recovered from archive?

Either way, my summary above still applies, though the full report goes into much more detail.

[Milos_Balunovic]

The topic may have temporarily "disappeared" during a period when it was policy for trader forums (Opie in this case) to be hidden from view when the trader ceased their relationship with the club.

I can't recall when, but sometime in the last 2 years or so the committee reviewed that policy and decided there was useful material in those forums, so "un-hid" them and made them "read only". This example proves it was a good idea to "un-hide" those forums

[Milos_Balunovic]

A lesson learnt there.

Very rarely is any information of no value.

Even "bad information" (fake news) is useful to hold as long as the correction/debunk is immediately following, as that might be the search string that someone is using.

[thatturborx8]

Just a quick feedback on gearbox oils for the R3:
I have tried many oils in gearboxes over the years including but not limited to REDLINE,AMSoil,Castrol and so on.
The best feedback i got by far was from
Motul Motylgear 75w-90 Technosynthese.
Nice stiff changes on cold with no crunching or other noises,lovely slick changes on hot with absolutely no issues.
I would highly recommend this gearbox oil to anybody with an R3 and i am sure you will notice a positive change from the first drive with this oil in the gearbox

[Dr. FrankenRex]

Fyi, for anyone reading this and not wanting to rebuilding their existing - I have an R3 'box with 50k miles on it which'll be available in the new year.

It's a 2009, so has potential for cronch - but is fine currently.