Group Buy - PZ Prodrive exhaust system (catback)

[warpc0il]

Tim Colchester is CEO with specific responsibility for Prodrive Advanced Technology
https://www.prodrive.com/aboutus-people

Looks like we've got the attention of the right people

[twade76]

I am definitely interested, although I need to get something sorted within the next few months so it may be a little optimistic if the requests have only recently been acknowledged by Scorpion!

[warpc0il]

Just to be clear and manage expectations...

If these negotiations are successful then what will be on offer will not be the best exhaust system that money can buy.
It may not even be the best value for money, depending how you judge that.

Success will mean that PZ owners can order a direct replacement of their tired original systems, or aftermarket systems that have been previously fitted, with a new system that is a re-manufacture of that Prodrive specified; just as if a significant spares holding had been produced back in 2006, only without having 15 years of dust to clean off.

If we can't achieve the above then it's a wasted exercise.

The market recognises that "originality" is a major factor in the perceived value of classic/collectable cars, especially with "special editions" - and for us there wasn't anything more special than the PZ (at least in the UK) - and the exhaust was a key element in that "special". We can already see owners moving away from modifications that can't be reversed, even on standard models.

Hopefully the unit cost will make it attractive enough that we can reach the pre-order threshold required for production, both for those who would want to purchase now and for those that may wish to in the future.

The fact that these systems will also fit non-PZ models in a bonus, both in giving those owners another alternative to consider, and if that helps meet the threshold. It could also be perceived as OEM+, as with many vehicles it has become acceptable to upgrade base models with options that weren't actually fitted at the time.

We would be delighted to assist in any way we can to help your members source parts for their cars.

So maybe we can use that leverage to get a more proactive response from Scorpion...

[ChrisHolmes]

What a brilliant result Dave and clearly Dave Richards hasn't lost his grass roots support genes despite being so successful.

[79398]

I can tell you now that if this comes off, I will be second in the queue, after just getting permission from her who must be obeyed, to place an order.
Your spot on when you say it's about originality (says him who is running Tein coilovers).
Fingers crossed

[meaningking]

Sounds promising

[meaningking]

Not the best pic

Thanks for that. So any without this are not originals then I was not aware if that.

[meaningking]

Scorpion have got back to me with some details...

They confirmed that they haven't produced any RX-8 exhausts for at least 4 years, despite some retailers still showing them as "special order" on their websites.

The current staff don't know if the retail RX-8 exhausts that were produced were the same as the PZ system, or not.

If they are to do a re-run of the PZ system they would need access to a sample car for approximately two weeks, after which that car would have it's original exhaust restored.

Access to a PZ silencer box for internal examination would also be very helpful.

The current sticking point is funding. As they're looking for a firm order for 100 units, with guaranteed payment.
I need the purchases to be direct between the end customers (yourselves) and the supplier, as I'm not going to be handling volumes of members' cash, or shipping product (via NI would be madness) or be in the loop for any future warranty issues - especially as their products have a lifetime warranty with the initial purchaser.

We may need to get one of their existing retailers in the supply chain, but that will increase the end prices.

In the meantime, Tim Colchester of Prodrive has also been in touch, confirming that they no longer have any technical records relating to the PZ, as "This project was carried out by our Performance Parts division which no longer exists". He has taken the time to speak directly to staff that used to work in Performance Parts, and that wasn't particularly fruitful either. However, he has confirmed that licensing use of the logo, for those systems to be fitted to PZs, will not be an issue.

Both he and David Richards are still supportive in our efforts to keep these cars on the road, so I've asked David if his opening statement of "We would be delighted to assist in any way we can to help your members source parts for their cars" could apply to resolving the capital funding issue. They're currently thinking about it...

[Mazzarx8]

If this comes off hit me up, I’d be interested

[tonym]

I’m interested in the PZ exhaust, new member so hope this OK, I’m also interested in buying some rear PZ springs if available

[tonym]

I have found the Prodrive sign on my exhaust, but I know the cat converter is aftermarket

[fiadh]

Yes. I would be interested too

[Calcifur83]

Has there been any further progress with this?

[warpc0il]

Unfortunately not.

Scorpian-Redpower are insisting on a pre-paid order for a minimum of 100 units before they're willing to progress this at all.

We were hoping that Prodrive may have been willing to underwrite the deal, as part of they're commitment to support PZ owners, but the current financial situation means that this isn't possible.

So, unless you know of anyone with £65,000 that they're prepared to speculate on this endeavour, it's not going to happen any time soon.

[Calcifur83]

That's a shame, but ultimately understandable.
Sadly I don't know anyone with that kinda cash kicking about.

[ciprianro]

Real shame. Good quality exhausts that aren't stupid loud have dried up entirely.

[Dr. FrankenRex]

Just to jump on this for a sec, I heard that Mazda in Germany still have PZ catbacks on the shelf...

[warpc0il]

Not according to the Mazda EU EPC they don't.

However, that doesn't mean that an individual Mazda dealer hasn't got a few or that Mazda themselves haven't squirrelled some away and aren't declaring stock, to prevent a dealer placing an order.

There's also an anomaly on the EPC that you can search for the part by name, number or navigating through the diagrams an it won't show, but put in an applicable VIN, then go back to the same page and it magically appears.

This happened a few years ago with the PZ spoilers, which needed a PZ VIN before they would display, though I can see them all the time now.

If anyone wants to share their PZ VIN I can try for the catback

[SprintRX8]

PM sent Dave

[PhilMD]

Just a thought - does the PZ replacement exhaust have to be made by Scorpion?

I have just bought a 231 that is a replica PZ, so has Prodrive/OZ alloys, PZ mirrors and spoiler and a Scorpion branded PZ exhaust which happens to be not fitted yet. There are decent exhaust manufacturers such as https://simpsonraceexhausts.com that could replicate the back box whilst reusing the tips (mine clamp on) or possibly the whole system.

[MadTaz]

This gets us neatly on to price. Scorpion have said the retail price would be in the region of £650 - £700 inc vat, which sounds a lot compared with say a Toyosports catback, and puts it between an RRP system @ £653 and a Racing Beat @ £962.

Dave,

Don't Scorpion already do a system for the Rx8, it always used to be available?

scorpion.jpg

As you say there is a reason why the Toyosports systems are so cheap! for anything half decent you're talking £600+

Do you know what the internal design format is? I believe it was the same as the OEM system and that it would be a chambered system and not a straight through flow design which IMO is not the best format for a rotary, although does keep it quiet!

Just interested in the appeal of this over aftermarket systems which appear to offer quite a bit more for the same money. i,e the RRP system is:

Tig weld
SS316 not SS304
Straight through design
Option of V-band or OEM flanges to compliment a high flow CAT.

Would folk be more inclined to purchase the aftermarket systems if it were say made by Scorpion? If this is the case and we want something 'better' then this is something I can get on board with. If it's replica you are after I don't quite understand as replica is not OEM but has the same constraints.

An update to my previous post, what would be everyone's thoughts on a 'new' design branded by Pro-Drive? My current Catback stock is pretty much finished, I could get another batch made up or I could 'try' to go into some kind of partnership with Prodrive where they design a new system and allow me to manufacture under license or similar.

For me though there would have to be some changes to the current system, that being.

Increase in diameter from 2.5 to 3inch (I could be swayed by 2.75).
Straight through design not chambered.

This may get us over the huge financial hurdle Scorpion have imposed and may get something near to OEM?

[warpc0il]

That sounds like a pragmatic approach, that could be viable from both practical and financial perspectives.

Regarding upgrading on the original design, this touches on the age old dilemma regarding restoration, renovation or re-imagining of a classic car.

There are many aftermarket exhausts available that would fit the PZ, including your own.

The demand that this GB was looking to meet was to make a product available that would have been equivalent to the product that owners could purchase, had Prodrive produced a spares stock at the time, making a roadworthy PZ as original as possible.

Not being a PZ owner myself, maybe I'm misrepresenting that demand and an improved design carrying the Prodrive brand would hit the spot.

I think you need to do some market research before committing either way.

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