Group Buy - PZ Prodrive exhaust system (catback)

[Blabis]

As some of you are aware, I've been in communication with Scorpion-Redpower regarding the potential of having a production re-run of the exhaust system they produced in 2006 for the PZ models.

This would enable PZ owners to restore their exhaust system to their original specification and may also be an attractive upgrade for other Series 1 owners who want a system that is stainless steel, lighter, more free-flowing and only slightly louder than Mazda OEM.

After 3-weeks of (mainly one-way) communication, I have finally got a response, which wasn't quite what I was hoping for but isn't entirely bad news, answering most of my questions (shown in italics)

Hello Dave,

Thanks for the enquiry.

You are correct when saying that Scorpion produced the exhaust for the Mazda RX-8 Prodrive PZ, the exhaust was designed in conjunction with Prodrive and built under license for them.

Do you have the original design for the PZ exhaust system? We no longer have any of the drawings, patterns or fixtures for the RX-8 PZ exhaust

Could you do another production run? This would only be possible if someone could provide a sample of the original exhaust

How many units would have to be pre-ordered to make this viable? We’d need a confirm order of 100 systems to make this viable

How much would each system cost? The retail price would be in the region of £650 - £700 inc vat

We wouldn’t be able to brand the product Prodrive as it’s not our brand and we also no longer have the tool which embossed the Prodrive name in the tailpipes, all we could offer is Scorpion branded or plain tailpipes with no branding.

If you have any further questions don’t hesitate to ask.

Kind regards

It's a pity that they no longer have any of the drawings, patterns or fixtures; so we're looking at a replica system, albeit from the original manufacturer.

However, I'm sure, if there were to be sufficient demand to take this forward, that we could find a member with a PZ, still fitted with the original exhaust, to let them examine it for a few days, especially if it meant getting a new replacement cheaper. Their factory is in Ripley, Derbyshire DE5 3NW.

A confirmed 100 order sounds a lot but the PZ Suspension group buy was a similar magnitude and was over-subscribed at the time, and club shop stock sold out two years ago.

The PZ exhaust is in a very similar situation to the suspension, as it's unique to that special edition and not available from any source, including Mazda. It would fit all other Series 1 cars without modification, though a slightly different tail-pipe arrangement would be required for R3's. It's also in direct competition with aftermarket systems produced/sold by trusted traders in the UK, and a wide variety of alternatives from around the world.

This gets us neatly on to price. Scorpion have said the retail price would be in the region of £650 - £700 inc vat, which sounds a lot compared with say a Toyosports catback, and puts it between an RRP system @ £653 and a Racing Beat @ £962.

It's a pity but understandable that they're not (currently) able to offer "Prodrive" branding on the exhaust tips. However, if there's enough demand, I'm happy to have a discussion with David Richards (Chairman of Prodrive - who I know from my Ford and Aston Martin days) and I'm sure we can get his blessing, at least for the PZ owners.

There would be one significant advantage of this group buy, compared to the PZ Suspension.

For the latter there was only one production run, for those units in the order, and a similar commitment would be required to repeat. This means that PZ owners that weren't able to take advantage the first time round are now still stuck as they would have been before.

Hopefully, once the minimum initial order has been placed with Scorpion, the PZ exhaust system will become part of their ongoing retail offerings, which will benefit future PZ (and non-PZ) owners going forward, without having to commit Club funds for Shop stock.

For the benefit of those unaware, I have included a copy of the original PZ sales brochure, which slightly underplays the role of the exhaust, only saying "The car also features a new upgraded exhaust system to accentuate the engine's enthralling sound" and "Unique upgraded twin exhaust system, with exhaust tailpipes branded ‘Prodrive’".

Mazda RX8 PZ 2006.pdf

Please feel free to comment in this thread, particularly if you would like to be part of the 100 initial order (list below) and especially if you are able to provide the sample car that they could use for the replication.

[warpc0il]

The list...

1. warpc0il - S1 non-PZ
2. 79398 - PZ
3. Blabis - PZ
4.
5.

[bigpete8]

I think you may want to check on their intended use for the sample exhaust. Is it going to be a destructive inspection?

[GreySilver Beast]

I'm having that discussion now.

My starting position is that the sample vehicle will be fitted with a pre-production replica, at a significantly discounted price, as part of the overall deal.

[79398]

The list...

1. warpc0il - S1 non-PZ
2. 79398- PZ
3.
4.
5.

[79398]

Would there not be a wholesale price for 100 units, normally buying in bulk comes with a significant discount on retail?

[New Duke]

How the purchases would be handled is still part of the ongoing discussion.

The OC doesn't have funds to make a wholesale purchase of this magnitude and I don't want to be handling £6-7k of member's money, taking payments up front.

Such bulk purchasing also creates issues with delivery logistics and any warranty claims.

My preference would be a good faith commitment from the OC, based on the responses from this thread, followed by direct retail orders from members to the supplier.

I'm currently awaiting the suppliers response to my last message, which included this point.

[xamtex]

i have a pz rear box in my garage that i took off because it has a loose baffle...it was going in the scrap but if it helps then it can be used to copy.i wont want it back,they can cut it open to look inside.

[warpc0il]

That could be very useful, depending what plan Scorpion come back with for the test mule.

[SprintRX8]

Post deleted.

[SeanP]

The point of this was to commission remanufacture if the bespoke PZ system, from the original source.

I'm also in contact with Prodrive to see if they have the original specifications and gain their blessing for use of the logo.

While we could approach any manufacturer to produce a replica, that would be less an "original" product.

In that case, PZ owners and others might as well choose from the existing aftermarket options.


Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk

[Delanor]

So wouldn`t all of the PZ exhaust development have been carried out by Scorpion on behalf of Prodrive, if that was the case on that basis it seems strange they don`t actually produce an exhaust for the RX-8, Scorpion do say lend them a car and they will develop an exhaust for it.


Not being a PZ owner but I will be replacing my Japspeed exhaust which has been on the car for nearly 14 years, no corrosion but it does seem a little noisier now so what is the difference in the PZ exhaust, the brochure says "The car also features a new, upgraded exhaust system to accentuate the engines enthralling sound" it doesn`t claim any performance improvement but Scorpion say "Each vehicle has its own characteristics so it’s not possible to state a specific amount. A general figure of between 5 – 10% would be expected but this can vary due to age and condition of the vehicle."

Scorpion exhaust do have a lifetime warranty as long as you are the original purchaser.

*
*
Del.

[Blabis]

Heyo, can add me and my pz to the list. It would be awesome to get get prodrive branded tips since its part of the looks, fingers crossed

[GreySilver Beast]

Thread moved here to provide visibility and encourage engagement with forum guests who wouldn't see otherwise, not having access to the Members-only Group Buy section of the forum, and all the other good stuff

[MadTaz]

This gets us neatly on to price. Scorpion have said the retail price would be in the region of £650 - £700 inc vat, which sounds a lot compared with say a Toyosports catback, and puts it between an RRP system @ £653 and a Racing Beat @ £962.

Dave,

Don't Scorpion already do a system for the Rx8, it always used to be available?

scorpion.jpg

As you say there is a reason why the Toyosports systems are so cheap! for anything half decent you're talking £600+

Do you know what the internal design format is? I believe it was the same as the OEM system and that it would be a chambered system and not a straight through flow design which IMO is not the best format for a rotary, although does keep it quiet!

Just interested in the appeal of this over aftermarket systems which appear to offer quite a bit more for the same money. i,e the RRP system is:

Tig weld
SS316 not SS304
Straight through design
Option of V-band or OEM flanges to compliment a high flow CAT.

Would folk be more inclined to purchase the aftermarket systems if it were say made by Scorpion? If this is the case and we want something 'better' then this is something I can get on board with. If it's replica you are after I don't quite understand as replica is not OEM but has the same constraints.

[warpc0il]

I've been asking Scorpion why some resellers are still listing a Scorpion branded exhaust for the RX-8, e.g. SC Styling albeit "Special Order", when the model hasn't been listed on their website for many years. That's one of the questions they have yet to answer.

It was hoped that all they would have to do is blow the dust off the plans, and switch on production, for a true replacement of the original PZ system.

The whole "replication" issue opens a new can of worms and questions whether the exercise is worth pursuing.

I volunteered to make the approach on behalf of members and I will continue the discussion so we fully understand what's on the table.

Whether enough people want to then place orders is up to them.

[mjrx8]

I’ve had two pz’s and have a Scorpion exhaust I had from another Rx8 and at the time I think I compared them and the only noticeable difference from the outside was the logo on the scorpion tips.

[350matt]

Does the PZ / Scorpion system offer any performance advantage over the standard Mazda Back box?
I thought it did not?

[warpc0il]

It's lighter and more free flowing, so provides as much performance benefits as any other sports catback - which is probably not a lot.

It may help if the PCM is given a bespoke remap to suit.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk

[meaningking]

I’ve had two pz’s and have a Scorpion exhaust I had from another Rx8 and at the time I think I compared them and the only noticeable difference from the outside was the logo on the scorpion tips.

I don’t see any logo on the tips of the exhaust in my PZ. Have you an image of why the logo looks like by any chance?

[79398]

Not the best pic

[79398]

Does the PZ / Scorpion system offer any performance advantage over the standard Mazda Back box?
I thought it did not?

No performance advantages according to the stats from Mazda but is more "throaty" above 7000 rpm

[Blabis]

Last week I emailed David Richards (Chairman of Prodrive) asking if his team might still have detailed records regarding the PZ components, and for permission to use the Prodrive logo on the reproduced exhausts.

This response just received...

Dear Dave

We would be delighted to assist in any way we can to help your members source parts for their cars.

We’ll need to check our records to see how much information we are still holding on file but as you know this vehicle is now over 15 years old and I suspect the records we have might be rather limited.

Nonetheless we’ll check our archives and get back to you as quickly as possible, although this might take us a few weeks.

As far as the use of the Prodrive logo on exhausts is concerned I’m sure we can agree to this provided it’s a limited number of exhausts and we have a short, signed agreement with the manufacturer of the exhausts and the Owners’ Club.

I’ve copied Tim Colchester in on this email as he heads up our Advanced Technology division, which would be responsible for this area of the business, and either he or one of his colleagues will be in touch.


Kind regards

signature.jpg

(Dictated and sent in my absence)
DAVID RICHARDS CBE
Chairman

logo.jpg

[79398]

Well done that man

[SprintRX8]

Well done Dave and to David Richard’s.
I suppose at the end of the day you’ve ask permission and the man from Prodrive said YES.