Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

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tsouthern
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Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

Hi folks,

I have a whinging noise coming from either my clutch, gearbox or differential which I’m struggling to diagnose.

2009 R3 model (I’ve heard the early 09 gearbox aren’t very good so I assuming this might be the issue)

- Inside the car it sounds like it’s coming from either gearbox or diff location
- No issues or grinding selecting 1-6 gears
- You can hear the noise only when moving.
- You can hear it coasting in neutral and also when the clutch is engaged
- You can hear it when braking
- The whinging noise goes away when accelerating. Even just slight acceleration.


I’ve checked,
- Brakes, Calipers and Discs
- Changed the diff oil
- Checked the engine mounts
- Gearbox oil was replaced with Redline MT90 about a year a ago. I haven’t replaced this yet. Might be my next step.

Any ideas?


[Media]https://youtube.com/shorts/fMf0JtfjHpU[/media]

[media]https://youtube.com/shorts/J5TuvYN58JQ[/media]


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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by Ollie »

Its possible its the clutch release bearing. They do tend to be quite noisy. Both of your videos are set to private so I can't currently see them to hear what it sounds like.
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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by Bigblueknight3k »

Yep i have same problem when i done my clutch as i thought it was release bearing but still doing it i think its gearbox one the bearing inside of it were it goes on to clutch

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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by warpc0il »

It might be something as simple as the rubber boot, located underneath the gear lever gaiter, has split.

"Normal" noises get much louder and some additional noises can get transmitted into the cabin via this route
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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »



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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by New Duke »

When you changed the diff oil did you measure how much you took out? And were the driveshaft seals leak free?
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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

Yorindesarin wrote:Its possible its the clutch release bearing. They do tend to be quite noisy. Both of your videos are set to private so I can't currently see them to hear what it sounds like.
I was thinking it might be clutch bearing, however I ruled it out because I could hear the whinging noise both when the clutch is engaged and also when the clutch is disengaged in gear and also in neutral.

Is a noisy clutch release bearing only apparent when the clutch pedal is pressed down?


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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

warpc0il wrote:It might be something as simple as the rubber boot, located underneath the gear lever gaiter, has split.

"Normal" noises get much louder and some additional noises can get transmitted into the cabin via this route
Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll do a drive by test to see if I can hear it from the outside.


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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

New Duke wrote:When you changed the diff oil did you measure how much you took out? And were the driveshaft seals leak free?
From memory it was pretty full. Also, no leaks from driveshafts or drain plug.


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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by 13Black »

Could be completely barking up the wrong tree, as I'm not aware of it making that particular noise if it HAS happened, but...

Has the gearbox/diff etc been off at any point?
Just wondering if the PPF has been tightened up in the wrong place and is out of alignment.

Used to cause all kinds of noises and trouble with the MX-5s which have the same setup.



Edit, post-reply:
Scratch what I said then, seems very unlikely to be the issue. :thumright:
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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

13Black wrote:Could be completely barking up the wrong tree, as I'm not aware of it making that particular noise if it HAS happened, but...

Has the gearbox/diff etc been off at any point?
Just wondering if the PPF has been tightened up in the wrong place and is out of alignment.

Used to cause all kinds of noises and trouble with the MX-5s which have the same setup.
Gearbox and/or diff haven’t been out since I’ve owned the car. The only recent mod has been new disc and pads. I’ve put the old disc back on to re test and it made no difference.

I also inspected the engine mounts to see if they were broken and they looked ok.


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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by 350matt »

I'd say the noise that is there all the time and worse under load is a worn gearbox bearing
, so replace the gearbox oil if you haven't already
but other than that the only cure is a rebuild
that said it'll probably soldier on for several thousand miles yet
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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

Another video of my issue,



Not sure if I should bite the bullet and purchase another gearbox.

I’m current running 2009 R3 box. Thinking about going for S1 6-speed. My research suggests it’s a straight swap?

Only thing that’s different is the electricals. Does anyone know if it’s difficult to rewire?

Thanks


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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by Paul_13 »

That's pretty bad. I'd personally be looking for a new box
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tsouthern (Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:49 pm)
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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by ChrisHolmes »

When the gearbox goes from the engine driving the car to the propshaft driving the engine the helical gears are pushed in the opposite direction on along the shaft and my guess is that a thrust washer or synchro cone has broken. The noise is likely to be of metal rubbing on metal and therefore the sooner you get the box replaced the better as potentially, rarely happens, if something collapses totally the gear box could jam solid locking the back wheels.
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tsouthern (Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:49 pm)
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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by warpc0il »

:whathesaid:

One of the guys I worked with had a brand new Sierra Cosworth as his company car.
The Cosworth was the only Ford (at that time) that needed the gearbox oil changed as part of the 1st Service @ 3,000 miles.

The dealer technician that started the job had read the worksheet, so he drained the gearbox.
The technician that finished the job hadn't read the worksheet, so didn't re-fill the gearbox.

Martin got about 14 miles down the road before the rear wheels locked and sent him spinning across three lanes of traffic.

The Cosworth and two other cars were written-off, plus four other cars were damaged.
Thankfully no one was seriously injured, this being before "whiplash" had been invented.

The dealer initially denied any responsibility...
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tsouthern (Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:49 pm)
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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by ChrisHolmes »

ChrisHolmes wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 11:36 pm
When the gearbox goes from the engine driving the car to the propshaft driving the engine the helical gears are pushed in the opposite direction on along the shaft and my guess is that a thrust washer or synchro cone has broken. The noise is likely to be of metal rubbing on metal and therefore the sooner you get the box replaced the better as potentially, rarely happens, if something collapses totally the gear box could jam solid locking the back wheels.
Thinking further on this, as the noise is also present when in neutral coasting I am now thinking it’s possibly not in the gear box but in the propshaft or diff area.
Time to get the car into a garage for investigation.
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tsouthern (Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:49 pm)
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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

Hi guys, decided to switch R3 box out for an S1. Can anyone help with the re wiring?

Which one is reverse and which is neutral, which way around do the wires need to go?

Any help would be hugely appreciated.

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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

I’ve tested the rewire on the reverse/neutral and wire colours coming out of the R3 loom are the same as the S1.

I’ve inspected the clutch release bearing and found that the one on the R3 is different to the S1. Does anyone know the if this is correct? I wasn’t expecting them to be different.

Image

Image

Image

The front cover of the bearing that has come off the R3 box is very loose. I can pull the bearing cover off by hand. Is this normal? I’m wondering if this was the cause of my gearbox whining issue.

Image

Any suggestions?


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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

Ok guys, got the S1 gearbox in and tested it. So still getting that same whining noise. All that work to switch the box over, still got the same issue. Well at least I’ve ruled out the gearbox as being the problem.

Not sure what to do next. Thinking that the next thing to look at might be diff.

Any suggestions on how I can test the diff?


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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by Paul_13 »

Listening to that video again, that sounds like a diff whine similar to mine.
I'd drain the fluid and check it doesn't look like mine did
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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

I changed the gearbox and diff a few weeks ago to see if that would fix the problem. No luck though.

The diff oil that came out didn’t look to bad. Pretty clean. It had been changed 6 months prior.

Have you tried any diff oil additives before?


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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by warpc0il »

I wouldn't use any additives in the Mazda diff, just good GL-5 quality oil.

Diff whine typically changes at least the note/volume with road speed, and whether accelerating, cruising or engine braking.
Sometimes the noise will change when going around a long curve, e.g. large roundabout.
There shouldn't be any difference is the sound one gear higher/lower, everything else being equal.

Try removing fuses #2 & #11 in the passenger footwell fusebox, and see if that makes any difference to the noise.

Most of the audio system is powered, even with the head unit Off, and sometimes electrical interference can be amplified and come through the speakers as an annoying whine.
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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by 350matt »

also check the state of the differential mounts and engine mounts if the engine mounts are worn out so the 'snubber' that sits in the matching groove in the metal of the engine bracket then you know the mount has had it as there should be clearance
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Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

Image
Image
Image

Engine mounts are looking ok

PPF is touching the first cross member. Is that the problem. How much gap should there be?

Image


Image


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