Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Place for discussions about the RX-8
User avatar
Paul_13
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Location: Basingstoke
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by Paul_13 »

Looks like the PPF is sitting really low.
The engine mounts look like they're on an angle as well.

When you tightened up the PPF did you jack it up slightly before hand
tsouthern
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

The gearbox was bolted up to the engine, then lifted the ppf up using scissor jack, torqued up the diff bolts first and then the bolts at the gearbox end.

Will take the ppf off and re install. Will put a jack under the gearbox to lift slightly ahead of tightening the bolts up.

How much of a gap do you think I should be aiming for?

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
Paul_13
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:53 pm
RX-8: 231
Location: Basingstoke
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by Paul_13 »

If you go to https://www.rotaryheads.com/PDF/RX8/
Download the transmission pdf and go to page 31
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by warpc0il »

Or even here >>>> viewtopic.php?f=58&t=41584
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
tsouthern
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

Thanks guys. Just to check once I have the ppf set in position the bolt through the cross member needs to be removed, right?

48.4-56.4mm from the underside of the front member to the bottom of the ppf

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
casey
Events Team Member
Events Team Member
Posts: 12589
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:14 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Titanium Grey
Location: Colchester
Has thanked: 507 times
Been thanked: 451 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by casey »

Yes, remove the bolt after setting the correct gap.
Essex Rotary Full Bridgeport
Seibon Carbon Fibre Bonnet, "Racing Brake" front calipers, Racing Beat (RB) ARB's F&R, RB REVI intake, full RB Stainless Steel Exhaust & Mani, 20mm Eibach spacers, KOYO Ali Rad, Lightened Fly, Tein MonoFlex coilovers & strut brace, Axial short-shifter, BHR Coils & Engine Mounts, Greddy Sump
Federal 595RS-R or Rainsport 3
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by warpc0il »

I did find one still in place under a members car, after he'd had the clutch replaced the year before.

Apparently it often "sounded like someone was trapped in the boot"
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
tsouthern
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

I've re-set the PPF with 55mm gap and taken it for a test drive and i'm still getting the same whining noise from the car. All that wasted effort in switching out the gearbox. So annoying.

The one positive is that the S1 box gear shifts feel smoother and faster than my R3 box.

I'm now thinking that this could be a differential issue.

Keen to hear thoughts on whether or not i should try and source an R3 diff to replace my one or pair my new S1 box up to an S1 diff? Do you think there would be any noticeable acceleration difference between S1 box + R3 diff combo compared with S1 box + S1 diff? Understand that MPG will be up.

Thanks
User avatar
ChrisHolmes
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 28283
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Has thanked: 2567 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by ChrisHolmes »

Paul_13 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:36 pm
Listening to that video again, that sounds like a diff whine similar to mine.
I'd drain the fluid and check it doesn't look like mine did
Having now listened to this on the PC rather than the phone the noise is more of a woo than a whine so i reckon its certainly the gearbox. Given what you have replaced so far then as you and others have also said....diff!
Rotary History;

Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black R3
Avatar courtesy of my grandson Cameron
tsouthern
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

Does anyone have an R3 or S1 diffs available?

Is there any difference between S1 5 speed, 6 speed and auto variants that I should look out for?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
ChrisHolmes
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 28283
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Has thanked: 2567 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by ChrisHolmes »

I have an 60k mile S1 diff you can have for the cost of shipping it but they are B heavy.
These users thanked the author ChrisHolmes for the post:
tsouthern (Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:56 am)
Rotary History;

Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black R3
Avatar courtesy of my grandson Cameron
tsouthern
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

ChrisHolmes wrote:I have an 60k mile S1 diff you can have for the cost of shipping it but they are B heavy.
Hi Chris,
Many thanks for helping me out with the diff. I’ve switched it over and it’s resolved the issue. Car is back in the road now.
I’m going to open up the old diff to see if I can find the issue.
Thanks
Tim


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
These users thanked the author tsouthern for the post (total 3):
warpc0il (Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:01 pm) • Paul_13 (Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:17 pm) • ChrisHolmes (Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:07 pm)
79398
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2074
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:46 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by 79398 »

My Gearbox wined and wasn't comfortable in 1st 2nd 3rd made worse by a Petit Racing Short Shifter.
The problem it appears was 80% me😳
I was chopping the shift making changes far too quickly, subconsciously trying to achieve a shift quicker than the box and the Shifter was comfortable with.
The problem was solved by moving my seat 20mm forward 👍
This allowed me to dip the Clutch to the full extent and slowed down the the movement, this has both made the changes much more comfortable and over the last week the Gearbox has quietened and there is much less wining probably due the gears sychomeshing properly. 👍😎
User avatar
ChrisHolmes
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 28283
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Has thanked: 2567 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by ChrisHolmes »

tsouthern wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:34 pm
ChrisHolmes wrote:I have an 60k mile S1 diff you can have for the cost of shipping it but they are B heavy.
Hi Chris,
Many thanks for helping me out with the diff. I’ve switched it over and it’s resolved the issue. Car is back in the road now.
I’m going to open up the old diff to see if I can find the issue.
Thanks
Tim
Another part of T200 CAD lives on by fixing another RX8


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rotary History;

Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black R3
Avatar courtesy of my grandson Cameron
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by warpc0il »

With any manual gearbox you'll get a slicker shift action if you take the slightest pause and relax your grip as you go through neutral, especially those changes that require a dogleg action; e.g 2nd<>3rd and 4th<>5th on our 'boxes.

However, even if you don't get into this habit, it shouldn't impact the level of noise once you've selected any given gear.
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
tsouthern
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

Opened up my S2 diff and found these. Seen on another thread that it’s common and that people think it’s a result of incorrect MOT brake test.

Do you think this could have been the cause of my diff noise?

My started during a knockhill track day in wet conditions.

Image


Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
Delanor
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12403
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:38 pm
RX-8: 40th Anniversary
Colour: Crystal White
Location: In the land of the big cat!
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 224 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by Delanor »

From the Buyers Guide:

Be aware!

When presenting an RX-8 for an MOT you should inform the tester that the car is equipped with a LSD as it has now become apparent that some MOT stations are not aware that the car is so equipped (although that information should be available when the cars details are entered into the system) and as such the usual brake test using rollers should not be carried out as damage can occur to the differential.
There is an option to carry out the brake test with a decelerometer which will not damage the differential.

Those fragments initially started off being found by MX5 Mk3 owners then the RX-8 started to follow suit.

*
*
Del.
1st Brilliant Black 190. 2nd Brilliant Black PZ. 3rd Strato Blue 230. 4th Crystal White 40th Anniversary.
Rotary FX fender grills, Japspeed stainless exhaust, Cosworth Air filter, Kinetix slotted & dimpled discs, EBC Red stuff pads, Ryan Rotary MK11 coils, Magnecor leads, Stainless front & rear grills, HID main beams, LED tail lights, front side lights/front fogs.
tsouthern
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

Does anyone know if this can be repaired? Or can re-use the S2 crown and pinion in a S1 diff?
Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
ChrisHolmes
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 28283
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Has thanked: 2567 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by ChrisHolmes »

As far as I know the gears are interchangeable, they are also very much sort after so could earn you some money as an alternative to keeping them for a rebuild.
Rotary History;

Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black R3
Avatar courtesy of my grandson Cameron
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by warpc0il »

I have see those "petals" removed from an 8's diff but I still don't know which part of the construction they come from and what's the impact of them being broken, other than they can get caught between the gears.

Document extract attached for reference.
Differential.pdf
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
User avatar
ChrisHolmes
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 28283
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Has thanked: 2567 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by ChrisHolmes »

My guess is that they are sections from the tapered friction cones.
Rotary History;

Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black R3
Avatar courtesy of my grandson Cameron
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by warpc0il »

That's what I was thinking, but it would be a good opportunity to know for sure, now it's in pieces.
These users thanked the author warpc0il for the post:
ChrisHolmes (Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:43 am)
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
tsouthern
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by tsouthern »

Hi guys,

Does anyone know what socket size I need for the nut lock on the end of the pinion?

I’ve found the park number (0223-27-030) but just not sure what size socket I need to get

Thanks


Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
13Black
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 4726
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:14 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Leicestershire
Has thanked: 265 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: Help with diagnosing a whinging gearbox

Post by 13Black »

warpc0il wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:38 am
That's what I was thinking, but it would be a good opportunity to know for sure, now it's in pieces.

Having swept up my fair share of those bits, and having disassembled the internal differential unit of one with those tabs missing, they 100% are from the tapered friction cones. Sometimes they also crack the ring/cone itself, not just break off the tabs.
-= Rotormelon Money Pit Build of Tasteless Questionable Bodgery =-
Experimelon 183whp rebuild | Rotary Revs D585s | PZ Suspension | Hawk & Yellowstuff pads | Extra steering lock | Custom exhaust | Added rearward flames of glory | Unnecessarily repurposed ball gags
-= Clicky click for build thread =-