Front Brake Vibration

[Hopkins]

I've recently started to experience vibration of the the front brakes. It has crept in over the last several weeks, and now the ABS and traction control lights come on and stay on. I will take the car in to be looked at, but what are the chances that it just needs new pads? The discs (standard) and pads (Mintex 1144) were replaced 18 months/12k miles ago, and 80% of those miles have been motorway miles. It doesn't feel like they should need replacing yet, but "feelings" frequently mislead me!

[shroom]

I've recently started to experience vibration of the the front brakes. It has crept in over the last several weeks, and now the ABS and traction control lights come on and stay on. I will take the car in to be looked at, but what are the chances that it just needs new pads? The discs (standard) and pads (Mintex 1144) were replaced 18 months/12k miles ago, and 80% of those miles have been motorway miles. It doesn't feel like they should need replacing yet, but "feelings" frequently mislead me!

Probably won't be a simple case of replacing your pads. If you have a search on here there are lots of posts about this type of thing.

You will need to check the slide pins are working as they should, the disc could have picked up some of the pad causing a bump on the surface creating the vibration or it could be that your caliper is failing to pull the piston all the way back causing the pad to stay on the disc slightly and over heat. (This is what I had)

To check this when the caliper is removed it shouldn't be super hard to break away from the disc and pads, mine was stuck solid and had to hammer it up and off, the piston was not all the way in.

Warped discs can happen but its not always the disc that's warped, as previously mentioned it can pick up pad material causing the surface problems

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[bigpete8]

As above number of likely causes.
Sticking caliper or slider (Mine gave vibration only at speed and only once warm, could move freely cold but replacement calliper sorted)
Wheel Balance - recent case of this.
Warped disk
tyre pressures/damaged tyre/wheel.

[Hopkins]

Thanks, folks. You have helped me to make one decision: I'm currently visiting Ipswich and I was wondering whether to take it to a (perfectly reasonable) normal garage with some urgency, or whether to book in with The Performance Shop later this week after I return to London, driving carefully in the mean time. I have selected the latter. Over the phone, Rhys described how they would tackle the situation and that they would get discs and pads in just-in-case which could be returned if not needed. I do appreciate the level of service I get there.

[Hopkins]

PS: I would have liked to attempt tackle this myself, but I simply do not have the time - or a driveway - at the moment!

[mi60o0]

I have front calipers refurbished new brembo pads and new disk you can have for 150 collected Se3 Kidbroke Greenwich

[ChrisHolmes]

Hopefully a deglaze of the discs and pad surfaces will sort the issue. The 1144 pads do like a bit of hard use which unless you are late braking on Mway slip roads they probably haven’t had and may have glazed.

[Hopkins]

I have front calipers refurbished new brembo pads and new disk you can have for 150 collected Se3 Kidbroke Greenwich

Much appreciated. I'm hoping my calipers are fine - I refurbished mine a couple of years ago too - so I probably won't take you up on this. But thanks anyway.

Hopefully a deglaze of the discs and pad surfaces will sort the issue. The 1144 pads do like a bit of hard use which unless you are late braking on Mway slip roads they probably haven’t had and may have glazed.

I didn't mention that much of the 20% of the time that I'm not on the motorway I do give the brakes (and the car in general!) a decent bit of exercise .

Well, come to think of it, maybe since moving to London this is not the case as much as it used to be... No frequent excursions along country lanes so, besides the rapid deceleration caused by odd person drifting out in front of me on the motorway without looking, perhaps I do need to think about giving them more of a workout.

[warpc0il]

Have a close inspection of the tyres, including the inner side walls.

Tyres are often a cause of vibration and if a tyre has been damaged, such as impact resulting in de-lamination of the structure, then this can reduce the effective rolling diameter, whether or not the inflation pressure has also dropped.

Any reduction of rolling diameter will cause the wheel to "overspeed" in comparison with the others and can trigger (or suppress) the ABS and/or DSC.

While some of the potential causes given above are probably more likely, tyre damage is easy to check, while unchecked it could result in catastrophic failure.

I had this scenario driving a Vauxhall Astra company car back in the early '80s.
No ABS on that car but the vibration did feel like the brakes, having started about 5 miles after driving over a toppled traffic cone in a motorway contraflow. By the time we pulled into the services and took a look underneath, there was a lump the size of half a big Easter egg on the inside side wall of the front tyre, which had been hitting the suspension upright every rotation

[Milos_Balunovic]

my record was a tyre on a lorry that looked very much like this

funnily enough, i deflated it and called a tyre fitter

[Hopkins]

Thanks for the advice. I'm about to embark on my return journey to London. I will check carefully first!

[LeeW]

Yesterday going to Birmingham from East Sussex in the van. As soon as I got to 70mph for the first time, I was sure I felt a very subtle new judder.

After a couple of hours on the M40 it got less subtle and after 2 mins I decided that I had either lost a wheel weight or maybe some nuts had come loose. But I now felt like it was coming from the rear. It was hammering with rain but decided to quickly pull up on the hard shoulder and check the nuts quickly as I had a socket set in the back. Nipped them all up but they were fine. Set off again. Within 1 mile had a blow out at 70. Must have been a bulge on the inner shoulder that I couldn't see.

Had a spare tyre. Did not have a jack...... Not a fun day. Lesson learnt.

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[warpc0il]

I suspect you'd picked-up a piece of metal in the tread, that was hiding when you checked the first time.

Must have been a moment

[casey]

That's a spectacular blowout!

[nightfire10]

Didn't realise remoulds were still available

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[Hopkins]

A quick update. Last week I took the car to TPS and they thoroughly dismantled, cleaned and greased all four brakes. There was still plenty of life in the pads and discs and no apparent warping. However, on reassembly, the vibrations still existed. So, by a process of elimination, the front discs and pads were changed and this solved the vibration problem. This is a bit of a shame because I had not even had a chance to take the Mintex 1144s (bought through the club) on the track yet. Well, they're still on the rears, but hey. My fronts are now running Yellow Stuff which are also supposed to be good on the track.

All this done, I was a little bit disappointed when the ABS and TCS lights came on a few days later! They have not been coming on each trip, as before, so something has improved. However, they came on after a slightly sharp application of the breaks which ended in a characteristic but brief "squelch" from the ABS. My opinion is that the ABS wouldn't normally have triggered then, but there might have been something slimy or loose was on the road. In any case, something still isn't quite right. I'll keep my eyes on the situation and perhaps find a safe place to investigate properly.

[Hopkins]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I don't think the problem has been solved. I believe that I am starting to feel vibrations again when applying the brakes at speeds above 50mph. (The vibrations are noticeable even with a gradual application of brakes.) The activation of he ABS and TCS lights in the last post had not recurred until last week, so I wonder if the problem might be with the braking mechanism itself and it gets worse as the pads get thinner?

In any case, I will continue to monitor and mention it to TPS when I next take the car in. (Incidentally, I'm running different tyres now. I didn't spot any changes around the time that I changed tyres - all still appeared well.)

[79398]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I don't think the problem has been solved. I believe that I am starting to feel vibrations again when applying the brakes at speeds above 50mph. (The vibrations are noticeable even with a gradual application of brakes.) The activation of he ABS and TCS lights in the last post had not recurred until last week, so I wonder if the problem might be with the braking mechanism itself and it gets worse as the pads get thinner?

In any case, I will continue to monitor and mention it to TPS when I next take the car in. (Incidentally, I'm running different tyres now. I didn't spot any changes around the time that I changed tyres - all still appeared well.)

Had the same issue, mine was resolved by replacing the front Hubs as the seat between the hub and the disc was not the best due to the faces not being 100%
So new Hubs pads and discs sorted it for me.

[Hopkins]

Ah, thanks. I wonder if that will solve the persistently squeaky brakes too?

[warpc0il]

Had the same issue, mine was resolved by replacing the front Hubs as the seat between the hub and the disc was not the best due to the faces not being 100%
So new Hubs pads and discs sorted it for me.

I've come across this when people haven't refitted the locating screws on the front discs (because the FB experts say that they're not needed) and dirt/grit/rust has got behind the disc when refitting the wheel.

The face of the disc then doesn't run true to the plane of the hub.

I've also seen where people do fit the locating screws but don't bother to clean the mating surfaces first, which gives the same result.
One of my work colleagues spent £50 getting his discs reground in-situ to "cure" a problem that was only there because of rust he'd left behind the disc.

I'm not suggesting any of these applied in your case and it could have been a damaged hub or failing bearing, but it's always worth checking the easy things first.

[79398]

Had the same issue, mine was resolved by replacing the front Hubs as the seat between the hub and the disc was not the best due to the faces not being 100%
So new Hubs pads and discs sorted it for me.

I've come across this when people haven't refitted the locating screws on the front discs (because the FB experts say that they're not needed) and dirt/grit/rust has got behind the disc when refitting the wheel.

The face of the disc then doesn't run true to the plane of the hub.

I've also seen where people do fit the locating screws but don't bother to clean the mating surfaces first, which gives the same result.
One of my work colleagues spent £50 getting his discs reground in-situ to "cure" a problem that was only there because of rust he'd left behind the disc.

I'm not suggesting any of these applied in your case and it could have been a damaged hub or failing bearing, but it's always worth checking the easy things first.

You are spot on, It was dirty faces not allowing a perfect fit, they were cleaned but it was never good enough, life is too short to spend time faffing, easier to just get the parts replaced.
I now know how old all the parts are which will help rule things out in the future and hopefully future proof the car.

[qwakers]

when i have that problem, i knock the studs out and use a wire cup brush on a grinder. comes up spotless.

harder to do on the rear as the studs dont come out without dismantling quite a lot iirc.

[79398]

when i have that problem, i knock the studs out and use a wire cup brush on a grinder. comes up spotless.

harder to do on the rear as the studs dont come out without dismantling quite a lot iirc.

I completely understand your solution, but from what you say it's a problem you have had more than once, presumably repeating the process.
Where we differ is I don't want the problem to come back, at least not until the parts are worn out.
Wishful thinking with these cars I know.

[qwakers]

nope, ive just owned a lot of cars over the years and have had to do it on more than one car. once done its a permanent fix. my 'instructions' if you can call them that are specific to the rx8, the problem is not.

[Hopkins]

Thanks, folks, very useful.