Turbo kit

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MadTaz
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Turbo kit

Post by MadTaz »

Just thought I'd post up some progress here: :)
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by 350matt »

good looking manifold
what turbo are you thinking to with it ? Borg warner EFR range ?
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by WildMan10 »

Where did you get the design from and what is it made of?
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Now back to one, a white R3. Gone but not forgotten: 04 Tit Grey 231, 06 Copper Red Evolve (231), 09 VR R3, 10 Aurora Blue R3, 06 Black PZ; RX87 13BREW project car ;-( ; 04 White with Greddy turbo conversion ;-(

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Re: Turbo kit

Post by PaulAV »

Isn't that RRPs take on the manifold for a turbo?
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MARKTHOMASBRAND »

PaulAV wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:46 am
Isn't that RRPs take on the manifold for a turbo?

Well :nod:

That's Carl Ryan in the avatar above :lol:
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by 350matt »

There's a chap on the US forum who's done a low mount turbo kit and interestingly enough he's only fed the outer ports to the turbo and the centre ports are plumbed to the seperate wastegate
looking at his dyno graphs he's gotten a good result

hmm now I've read his latest results he's gone away from that design
rx8 turboi mani brettus.jpg
mind you his power figures are with 40 % ethanol and off the mazda edit power reading so not a 'real' dyno
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by WildMan10 »

The US have the advantage that they don't have the steering column getting in the way. BTW which thread is that? I had a quick look on RX8club and couldn't find it. I used to spend a lot of time on the major horsepower upgrades and engine swaps threads but am a bit out of touch now.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by 350matt »

its the adventures of Brettus

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major- ... 81/page91/
a very inventive chap
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by 350matt »

and his dyno pull on pump gas ( as they say)
rx8 turboi mani brettus4 no e40.png
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by WildMan10 »

Brettus? I know him and his previous projects well. He’s in NZ and has the same RHD restrictions as us.

His manifold looks interesting. The manifold’s dynamics for the turbo and wastegate are not for purists, forced by the cramped available space, but it seems to be working well enough for him despite all the inefficiencies and flow restrictions.

Although all dyno results should be taken with suspicion over the parameters used, that looks impressive. I wonder how responsive it is on the road and whether the wastegate’s position will make it slow to affect over boosting. On a wider point, I’m wary of a turbocharged Renesis’s ability to last before going bang and at that power level I’d much rather spend time and effort on a 13B REW conversion, but then I don’t have his skill, enthusiasm and resources.

Carl’s design doesn’t have the wastegate port, so he must be looking at an internal wastegate turbo.
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Now back to one, a white R3. Gone but not forgotten: 04 Tit Grey 231, 06 Copper Red Evolve (231), 09 VR R3, 10 Aurora Blue R3, 06 Black PZ; RX87 13BREW project car ;-( ; 04 White with Greddy turbo conversion ;-(

Buying a used RX8 turbo is like marrying a stripper.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by 350matt »

another big difference is the Brettus design is for a twin scroll turbo so the small scroll is fed all the time and the large scroll is on the wastegated side
I suspect this is the main reason for the healthy low speed torque its showing
but yes I feel a 400Whp renesis is either a consumable or its been built for boost with 3mm apex seals etc
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by WildMan10 »

I’ll have a look at his thread later on my PC so I can see what he’s doing.

For now, be careful of applying info on twin scroll turbos without allowing for the peculiarities of Wankel engines. Each scroll must have a wastegate, so the 2 turbo ports must be interconnected (I cant see well enough on my phone to check). That must reduce the impact of the twin scroll, although spool times will still be an improvement.
Ian
Now back to one, a white R3. Gone but not forgotten: 04 Tit Grey 231, 06 Copper Red Evolve (231), 09 VR R3, 10 Aurora Blue R3, 06 Black PZ; RX87 13BREW project car ;-( ; 04 White with Greddy turbo conversion ;-(

Buying a used RX8 turbo is like marrying a stripper.
Beware - older people may be cr@p drivers but they can afford better lawyers
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by WildMan10 »

350matt wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:47 am
its the adventures of Brettus

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major- ... 81/page91/
a very inventive chap
I had a quick look at the latest page. It has a discussion on Carl’s set-up. They don’t like it and have alternative suggestions.
Ian
Now back to one, a white R3. Gone but not forgotten: 04 Tit Grey 231, 06 Copper Red Evolve (231), 09 VR R3, 10 Aurora Blue R3, 06 Black PZ; RX87 13BREW project car ;-( ; 04 White with Greddy turbo conversion ;-(

Buying a used RX8 turbo is like marrying a stripper.
Beware - older people may be cr@p drivers but they can afford better lawyers
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by 350matt »

WildMan10 wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:17 pm
I’ll have a look at his thread later on my PC so I can see what he’s doing.

For now, be careful of applying info on twin scroll turbos without allowing for the peculiarities of Wankel engines. Each scroll must have a wastegate, so the 2 turbo ports must be interconnected (I cant see well enough on my phone to check). That must reduce the impact of the twin scroll, although spool times will still be an improvement.
well the the two scrolls are connected via the siamesed centre port so both rotors are plumbed to the wastegate just not via the same point
looks like he's also on a 4 port engine
the dyno plots ( now a real dyno) do look good
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Elmotheewokking »

I've been watching this progress since it broke cover on the Boosted Renesis Facebook page. That was a err, interesting post.
Curious to see how an internally gated turbo will cope.
Already have a friend lined up to knock up a top mount turbo manifold and downpipe. Even after being told several times that "Top mounts are only there for bling" I don't understand paying thousands for a turbo system, to then hide it.
HX35, 16cm housing and a big external gate. Attempting to route it without cutting up any engine mounts or removing the OMP like certain American solutions.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MadTaz »

Love the love on this, always haters out there and the Rx8club is the worst of them all. If you're not in the click then......

Well I think they are missing the point we arent aiming for maximum power, 330-380whp will be just fine and this set up will be more than capable.

The idea being quick spool, and a good mannered road car, not a drag or race car.

As for the turbo, its a very capable turbo which retails at £1900, comparing to Greddy which flows quite a bit less is, well, a bit silly..

It won't be long I'll just let the results do the talking when its ready.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MadTaz »

Greddy vs XONA
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Frostorm »

Hey, I noticed on the kit's product page that it utilizes a Xona XR5448. I would strongly recommend choosing a UHF model from the Xona range instead (i.e. models that end w/ "S"). I believe that would be the XR5451S. It should help reduce backpressure and improve spool at the same time. The UHF turbines are kind of Xona's "thing", so it'd be quite the missed opportunity not using their new turbine design, imo. Looking forward to the results!
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MadTaz »

I thought I'd add a little more information to this for following this thread with interest;

So the Greddy kit I believe used the the TD06-18g the TD06 housing with 18g compressor wheel, this turbo flows 685CFMs which is broadly calculated to 46.5Lbs/min. The Xona for comparison flows 54lbs/min so c15% more than that of the Greddy. The Greddy TD06 while a great turbo is pretty old hat these days and turbo technology is moving so fast, we bought our X2C 5448 over a year ago and that now has been superseded in the Xona range.

Lucky for us though there are plenty of turbos to choose from which are dimensionally identical to one another (same compressor and exhaust housings) so we will be able to offer more choice for your needs.

I still believe the 5448 (5451s new turbo) will make a nice mannered road car, spooling very early and producing 330WHP, this will become our benchmark, in addition to this we will be running the kit with the 7864s (largest in the range) which flows a whopping 78lbs/min, this turbo also boasts the new UHF turbine. (again all this was not available when we bought the original turbo.) It will not spool as fast as the 5448 but it'll certainly give a bit more power mid to top end and reach c370WHP pretty easily.

The issue is when you start to go too big and powerful then you have to start introducing more supporting modifications, meth injection etc. The idea behind the original concept was to deliver an OEM+ style kit with drivability at the heart. The Greddy nearly did it but was let down by quite a few area including:

Manifold Design - Cracks
Turbo choice - was a little too small and had a narrow efficiency band, although has achieved 290Whp on some modified set ups. (so I hear)
Intercooler - restrictive and certainly not optimal, reports of quite a pressure drop across it.
Filter location - Inside the engine bay which is not ideal.

We have some neat features for out intercooler design and something not seen in the Rx8 market before, the demo car will be off the fabricators in 5 weeks for a full kit out of the prototype, this is going to be something special! :)


Now for anyone wanting silly power then perhaps a twin turbo REW swap :) (our latest development)
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MadTaz »

Frostorm wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:03 am
Hey, I noticed on the kit's product page that it utilizes a Xona XR5448. I would strongly recommend choosing a UHF model from the Xona range instead (i.e. models that end w/ "S"). I believe that would be the XR5451S. It should help reduce backpressure and improve spool at the same time. The UHF turbines are kind of Xona's "thing", so it'd be quite the missed opportunity not using their new turbine design, imo. Looking forward to the results!
Hello Brett :)
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Frostorm »

MadTaz wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:33 am
Frostorm wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:03 am
Hey, I noticed on the kit's product page that it utilizes a Xona XR5448. I would strongly recommend choosing a UHF model from the Xona range instead (i.e. models that end w/ "S"). I believe that would be the XR5451S. It should help reduce backpressure and improve spool at the same time. The UHF turbines are kind of Xona's "thing", so it'd be quite the missed opportunity not using their new turbine design, imo. Looking forward to the results!
Hello Brett :)
Heh, I'm actually not Brett. But I got the link from his thread... Btw, why the decision to go with IWG instead of EWG? Can't wait to see how this turns out...5 weeks can't come fast enough haha.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by New Duke »

Nice overview Carl. Your plans sound right up my street.

I've seriously considered FI in the past but aside from yours and SAS' supercharged cars every other one I've seen has had ongoing issues at great cost, and long periods in the workshop. Particularly the turbo ones. A testament to you and SAS doing it right I'm sure.

Personally I couldn't give a toss about a peak dyno readout. All I'd want is increased performance from stock, without having to wait an age for the turbo to kick in and minimum mods required. With some semblance of reliability. So this sounds the best approach for me I've seen so far. Will keep my fingers crossed on the cost (and that it'll work on an R3) :thumright:
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by AndyBrad »

So when we pop round for an engine rebuild how much extra is this going to cost us? Im hoping for 500 quid :)
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by New Duke »

AndyBrad wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:53 pm
So when we pop round for an engine rebuild how much extra is this going to cost us? Im hoping for 500 quid :)
The turbo alone costs £2k ;)

I really hope they can find a way to do it for £5-6k and it still be worth their while. If that's an 'all in fitted' price, and doesn't require a fresh rebuild, then I think it would be a very competitive offering. That may just be wishful thinking on my part though. I was quoted double that by a motorsport company for a custom turbo fitted to my R3 a couple of years ago.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MightyCondor »


MadTaz wrote: Now for anyone wanting silly power then perhaps a twin turbo REW swap :) (our latest development)
Surely you're not trying to retain the OEM twin turbo setup? From what I gather, there isn't space in the RX-8s engine bay.

Interested to see how your plans develop though, as I really want to do this at some point and would love to see a viable offering Image

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