Turbo kit

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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MadTaz »

qwakers wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:11 pm
the biggest problem i have with turbo (and sc) conversions is the reduced redline, which i feel takes away the main pleasure of driving a 8.

would you be willing to r@d a bigger turbo, with slightly later spool up (i see no advantage on track of boost under 3krpm) that produces boost up to a 9-10k redline?

(gets wallet ready....)

plus, how about a turbo'd Periperal port engine...... :D
personal preference, but imagine this scenario, cruising at 3K rpms, on a dual carriage way, and need to overtake or someone wants to 'play' imagine just being able to put your foot down rather than changing down 2 gears to get going.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MadTaz »

mrspiller wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:31 pm
No doubt the RRP will be different but the greddy kit I have just ain’t built for track cars .
It’s too close to the footwell and is known after 2 session to burn the sole of your shoe .
I’m told ImageImage

We will be putting in a heat shield, I don't want to wrap or put in a turbo blanket unless I really have to, this one really depends on the data we get back once all in, but heat shield in the first instance and see how we go.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by qwakers »

MadTaz wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:02 pm
qwakers wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:11 pm
the biggest problem i have with turbo (and sc) conversions is the reduced redline, which i feel takes away the main pleasure of driving a 8.

would you be willing to r@d a bigger turbo, with slightly later spool up (i see no advantage on track of boost under 3krpm) that produces boost up to a 9-10k redline?

(gets wallet ready....)

plus, how about a turbo'd Periperal port engine...... :D
personal preference, but imagine this scenario, cruising at 3K rpms, on a dual carriage way, and need to overtake or someone wants to 'play' imagine just being able to put your foot down rather than changing down 2 gears to get going.
aye fair point, but my car will probably never see another dual carriageway :mrgreen:
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by warpc0il »

Most of the dual carriageways around here have 40mph speed limits, which confuses the hell out of satnavs, that prefer NSL country lanes.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Frostorm »

MadTaz wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:28 pm
Always an upside and downside of any kit/combination, it just depends what your goals are? What are your goals?
Not far from what you stated, except leaning towards more midrange? Maybe something like 0.8-1.0 Bar and fully spooled by 3k (hopefully that's not too optimistic). Was originally gonna go with the 0.82 A/R EWG housing, but if your tests w/ the XR6564S & 0.80 IWG goes well, I'll do that instead. Btw, any porting done on your motor?
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MadTaz »

Frostorm wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:33 am
Not far from what you stated, except leaning towards more midrange? Maybe something like 0.8-1.0 Bar and fully spooled by 3k (hopefully that's not too optimistic). Was originally gonna go with the 0.82 A/R EWG housing, but if your tests w/ the XR6564S & 0.80 IWG goes well, I'll do that instead. Btw, any porting done on your motor?
Sounds like to me that our goals are very similar, the XR6564S will give you that 1 bar of pressure not a problem and should be good for 350WHP, comfortably. I would imagine the difference between the 0.8 & 0.82 being marginal with the 0.82 being slightly better up top due to being EWG as well as bit larger. you'll also probably find that post 8K the EMAP will be pushing higher reducing the top end potential.

I would imagine you'll also be on boost by 3000rpms and it'll be a lovely responsive motor, everything you are suggesting makes sense to me, sounds like a very good recipe for success. :thumright: Far better than something not on target until 4000rpms which will just feel lazy and generally not fun on the road unless you are thrashing it through the gears.

for the engine, if its a 6 port and I'm assuming it is, then just a good clean up of the ports is all you need. In addition I would also fit Rx7 Apex seals which due to the weight naturally lower the redline to 8500rpms regardless of turbo sizing.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by warpc0il »

This sound very much like the Escort Cosworth that came with the big turbo, for homogenisation purposes, and looked good for max bhp, but made the car a pig to drive on the road.

Most of my colleagues that drove them took advantage of the Ford offer to retrofit a smaller snail, that reduced max power but moved max torque a couple of k rpm further down the rev range, while also "eliminating lag".

Technology has moved a long way since then but the same rules of physics still apply.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Frostorm »

warpc0il wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:29 pm
This sound very much like the Escort Cosworth that came with the big turbo, for homogenisation purposes, and looked good for max bhp, but made the car a pig to drive on the road.

Most of my colleagues that drove them took advantage of the Ford offer to retrofit a smaller snail, that reduced max power but moved max torque a couple of k rpm further down the rev range, while also "eliminating lag".

Technology has moved a long way since then but the same rules of physics still apply.
The XR5451S being proposed is actually a very small turbo for the Renesis. Definitely not a "big turbo" by any means. I imagine it will probably spool similar to Mazda's SkyActiv 2.5T. Here's a list of possible turbos that fall under the X2C size category, from smallest to largest:
XR4951S
XR5451S
XR5757S
XR6157S
XR6557S
XR6564S
XR7164S
XR7864S
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Metatron »

(gets refund on membership)
Last edited by Metatron on Thu May 06, 2021 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Brettus »

WildMan10 wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:24 pm
Brettus? I know him and his previous projects well. He’s in NZ and has the same RHD restrictions as us.

His manifold looks interesting. The manifold’s dynamics for the turbo and wastegate are not for purists, forced by the cramped available space, but it seems to be working well enough for him despite all the inefficiencies and flow restrictions.

Although all dyno results should be taken with suspicion over the parameters used, that looks impressive. I wonder how responsive it is on the road and whether the wastegate’s position will make it slow to affect over boosting. On a wider point, I’m wary of a turbocharged Renesis’s ability to last before going bang and at that power level I’d much rather spend time and effort on a 13B REW conversion, but then I don’t have his skill, enthusiasm and resources.

Hi , just thought I'd comment on this after finally getting access to the site. You are right in that my design is certainly unconventional. But the Renesis is different to any other engine and as such needs to be treated differently.
With regards to virtual dyno results shown . I don't know why the guy that posted them didn't post my actual dyno results because those are on the thread as well.

Anyway :I'm not meaning to derail Carl's thread here (hi Carl :) ) so if anyone is interested in discussing what I'm doing, can they start another thread please.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by warpc0il »

Brettus wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 3:26 am
if anyone is interested in discussing what I'm doing, can they start another thread please.
Hi Brettus, you're welcome to start your own thread, maybe starting with an introduction here. >>> viewforum.php?f=35

In the meantime, your input could be relevant to this thread viewtopic.php?f=104&t=81596 particularity the last couple of pages, though the rest gives you the full background
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MadTaz »

Just a picture to show the difference between compressors,

The smaller one is the Xona 5448 X2C now superseded by the Xona XR 5451S X2C and this will be lower power kit (subject to testing).
The larger one is the Xona 7864S X2C this is the largest in the X2C range so lets see what this can do!
Xona XR 5448-X2C.jpg
Xona XR 7864S-X2C.jpg
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MadTaz »

Final manifold CAD ready for production :D
184854151_726306338037792_7195003561792804596_n.png
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MadTaz »

So it begins 8)
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by mrspiller »

Nice
Is the turbo slung in same place as the greddy ?
But assume more room due to the neat manifold ?


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Re: Turbo kit

Post by MadTaz »

It's a low mount kit same as the Greddy so pretty much the same area.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by mrspiller »

MadTaz wrote:It's a low mount kit same as the Greddy so pretty much the same area.
Just asking
The manifold looks slim so more room for turbo
Keep updating Image


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Re: Turbo kit

Post by bc-49 »

Is this aimed at being purely a road set up, or would it also be suited to track work?

If I could get 300whp and boost at 3k rpm in a set up that can handle 20 min stints on track, then I’d be very interested once available.


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Re: Turbo kit

Post by GlowingBulb »

Did this kit ever get tested on the road? I was getting excited as I read the progress then it all ended 🤨

Also, sorry for the necro!
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Frostorm »

Fresh off the press! Compressor maps for Xona Rotor turbos are out now!

Check it out:
https://xonarotor.com/technical/xona-ro ... ssor-maps/

Btw MadTaz, I'd like to buy one of your turbo manifolds, if possible. I'm probably going to go with an XR6564S for my 8.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Milos_Balunovic »

Frostorm wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 6:06 pm
Fresh off the press! Compressor maps for Xona Rotor turbos are out now!

Check it out:
https://xonarotor.com/technical/xona-ro ... ssor-maps/

Btw MadTaz, I'd like to buy one of your turbo manifolds, if possible. I'm probably going to go with an XR6564S for my 8.
What power do you aim for?
0.2kg/s at pressure ratio=1 is your stock mazda. These turbo compressor maps don't really favour low boost. You need one that will have 1.5 PR at 0.3kg/s for roughly 300whp and have that on the right side of the compressor map and have a lot of area from that to the left on the map. If that is not the case the compressor will stall.

71is the minimum I would consider for that power goal , with 78xx being much better (65% instead of 60% efficiency island)
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Frostorm »

I'm shooting for 10psi of boost, so that's ~1.71PR (at my elevation ambient is 14psi) and about 0.32kg/s (~1.6DR). That puts efficiency at ~65% according to the map for the XR6564S. I prefer the quicker spool that comes from having a smaller turbo. Also, it's going to be for mostly street use and less so track. Therefore I won't be spending a lot of time at redline. So it's okay if I lose a few % of efficiency at the end of the powerband. If you asked me a year or 2 ago, I would've picked the XR7869S instead, but my preferences have changed now lol.

Here's a neat little calculator I like to use:
https://www.stealth316.com/2-turbotemp.htm
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Milos_Balunovic »

Ok so you aim at that power at lower rpm (7000ish)
Would still prefer a turbo that can work with lower PR.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Frostorm »

The selling point of Xona's UHF turbos is in the turbine. The compressor is nothing special tbh. But their turbine blade design is unique in the industry. The reduced bottleneck in the turbine's throat area will let the Renesis breathe easier, which I'll take for the improved lifespan any day. The Xona turbos w/ the UHF wheels are denoted by the letter "S" at the end of the model number.
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Re: Turbo kit

Post by Milos_Balunovic »

Frostorm wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:06 am
The selling point of Xona's UHF turbos is in the turbine. The compressor is nothing special tbh. But their turbine blade design is unique in the industry. The reduced bottleneck in the turbine's throat area will let the Renesis breathe easier, which I'll take for the improved lifespan any day. The Xona turbos w/ the UHF wheels are denoted by the letter "S" at the end of the model number.
I would "use" this design. viewtopic.php?p=1366808#p1366808
seams you need the external WG aniway :)