Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
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Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
...do I change the oil to fully synthetic 5W40 now? Or wait until the next oil change? Or leave it with Miller's Trident 10W40?
What's the accepted wisdom on this one?
What's the accepted wisdom on this one?
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
I fitted my Sohn over ten years ago, with the intention of switching to fully synthetic oil.
However, having contacted various big brand oil companies I couldn't find any that would state that their synthetic oils were compatible with the materials used in the Renesis engine. Both Mobil and Shell said theirs weren't compatible while the rest either said they had no plans to test, or just ignored my request.
There were two synthetic oils specifically sold of rotary engines at that time, of which only one still exists.
My decision was to stick with Shell Helix 10w40 "semi-synthetic" which is actually a mineral based oil with synthetic additives, which Shell confirmed as safe with the Renesis.
I change the oil every 3k miles'ish.
Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
However, having contacted various big brand oil companies I couldn't find any that would state that their synthetic oils were compatible with the materials used in the Renesis engine. Both Mobil and Shell said theirs weren't compatible while the rest either said they had no plans to test, or just ignored my request.
There were two synthetic oils specifically sold of rotary engines at that time, of which only one still exists.
My decision was to stick with Shell Helix 10w40 "semi-synthetic" which is actually a mineral based oil with synthetic additives, which Shell confirmed as safe with the Renesis.
I change the oil every 3k miles'ish.
Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
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- mrspiller (Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:06 pm) • SmuttyHutty (Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:30 pm)
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
https://www.racshop.co.uk/5ltr-helix-hx7-10w40.html seems better value than Miller's......
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
Shell helix 5w-40
Millers nanodrive 5w-40
Or Motul 300V 5w-30 would be my choice.
Have used all three extensively with strips downs after. The engine used on nano drive was immaculate! And money no object my choice with a COFS/SOHN
Millers nanodrive 5w-40
Or Motul 300V 5w-30 would be my choice.
Have used all three extensively with strips downs after. The engine used on nano drive was immaculate! And money no object my choice with a COFS/SOHN
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
TBF nanodrive didn't exist when I went through that exercise, and Millers response at the time was a bit vague, as if they had something in mind that they weren't prepared to talk about.
Interesting that RRP are seeing good performance from it, though curious why engine(s) that have been run on nano drive are being stripped.
One thing to consider is that with a sohn/cofs installed, your engine oil consumption between changes is zero.
I still can't get out of the habit of checking but the dipstick level never changes.
Interesting that RRP are seeing good performance from it, though curious why engine(s) that have been run on nano drive are being stripped.
One thing to consider is that with a sohn/cofs installed, your engine oil consumption between changes is zero.
I still can't get out of the habit of checking but the dipstick level never changes.
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- SmuttyHutty (Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:24 am)
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
And a 6000 mile service interval instead of 3000 mile if I go down the synthetic oil route?Ryan Rotary Performance wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:35 pmShell helix 5w-40
Millers nanodrive 5w-40
Or Motul 300V 5w-30 would be my choice.
Have used all three extensively with strips downs after. The engine used on nano drive was immaculate! And money no object my choice with a COFS/SOHN
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
You be fine with a bit longer, 10K miles in fact or annually would be my recommendation if you do not do that mileage.SmuttyHutty wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:59 amAnd a 6000 mile service interval instead of 3000 mile if I go down the synthetic oil route?Ryan Rotary Performance wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:35 pmShell helix 5w-40
Millers nanodrive 5w-40
Or Motul 300V 5w-30 would be my choice.
Have used all three extensively with strips downs after. The engine used on nano drive was immaculate! And money no object my choice with a COFS/SOHN
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
Looked into the nanodrive and found this response from Millers to a chap on a Porsche forum. I was wondering about the difference between the NT vs CFS oils:
You could go with a 10w50 as one of our customers Hartech recommend this viscosity, but that is more for more tuned engines and racing applications. For normal road use we would go with a 5w40 – but it is same answer to your query. Both products use the triple ester formulation ; the difference lies in the NANODRIVE low friction technology package. The NT+ has the full package whereas the non NT+ has part of the package. They both are a massive step up from an automotive oil – but the NT+ yields the best results and would be the best offering for your Porker.
CFS 5w40/10w50 NT+ up to 65% reduction in friction. (Typically)
CFS 5w40/10w50 up to 26% reduction in friction. (Typically)
Hope this helps.
Kind regards,
Mark
MARK CROSSLEY | TECHNICAL ADVISOR |
I would assume that the same applies to a rotary engine?
You could go with a 10w50 as one of our customers Hartech recommend this viscosity, but that is more for more tuned engines and racing applications. For normal road use we would go with a 5w40 – but it is same answer to your query. Both products use the triple ester formulation ; the difference lies in the NANODRIVE low friction technology package. The NT+ has the full package whereas the non NT+ has part of the package. They both are a massive step up from an automotive oil – but the NT+ yields the best results and would be the best offering for your Porker.
CFS 5w40/10w50 NT+ up to 65% reduction in friction. (Typically)
CFS 5w40/10w50 up to 26% reduction in friction. (Typically)
Hope this helps.
Kind regards,
Mark
MARK CROSSLEY | TECHNICAL ADVISOR |
I would assume that the same applies to a rotary engine?
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
What are you using in the Sohn tank? TPS gave me some Protek-R which sounds like it has a lot going for it except the price!
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
“Assume” can quickly make an ass of you and me! I suggest you ask the question of Millers as they are the authority on their products.SmuttyHutty wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:51 amLooked into the nanodrive and found this response from Millers to a chap on a Porsche forum. I was wondering about the difference between the NT vs CFS oils:
You could go with a 10w50 as one of our customers Hartech recommend this viscosity, but that is more for more tuned engines and racing applications. For normal road use we would go with a 5w40 – but it is same answer to your query. Both products use the triple ester formulation ; the difference lies in the NANODRIVE low friction technology package. The NT+ has the full package whereas the non NT+ has part of the package. They both are a massive step up from an automotive oil – but the NT+ yields the best results and would be the best offering for your Porker.
CFS 5w40/10w50 NT+ up to 65% reduction in friction. (Typically)
CFS 5w40/10w50 up to 26% reduction in friction. (Typically)
Hope this helps.
Kind regards,
Mark
MARK CROSSLEY | TECHNICAL ADVISOR |
I would assume that the same applies to a rotary engine?
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- SmuttyHutty (Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:44 am)
Rotary History;
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Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
Will do - I'll post back their reply.
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- ChrisHolmes (Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:32 am)
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
Copy and paste response from Millers (please, I don't want to start an argument with member(s) or oil companies):
Good morning,
Thank you for your enquiry.
The Porsche response would be from my good self!
The main reason why mineral oils are required in this type of engine is that a fully synthetic oil would glaze the rotor tips and reduce compression. If you are eradicating this then by all means you could use a CFS product. The difference in friction reduction between the CFS and CFS NT+ products remain the same from when I wrote that email back in 2019.
These RX8 engine require a 5w30 engine oil, therefore the CFS version would have to be our CFS 0w30 NT+ (importantly has the same viscosity at the high temps). If you want to stick with a thicker oil then we would offer the CFS 5w40 NT+.
Kind regards,
Mark
I'm happy to post my email if folk want to see that.
Good morning,
Thank you for your enquiry.
The Porsche response would be from my good self!
The main reason why mineral oils are required in this type of engine is that a fully synthetic oil would glaze the rotor tips and reduce compression. If you are eradicating this then by all means you could use a CFS product. The difference in friction reduction between the CFS and CFS NT+ products remain the same from when I wrote that email back in 2019.
These RX8 engine require a 5w30 engine oil, therefore the CFS version would have to be our CFS 0w30 NT+ (importantly has the same viscosity at the high temps). If you want to stick with a thicker oil then we would offer the CFS 5w40 NT+.
Kind regards,
Mark
I'm happy to post my email if folk want to see that.
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
So, my understanding (and PLEASE correct me if I am wrong) is that in an S1 engine the sump oil is for cooling and lubricating moving parts and also a measured amount is squirted in to the combustion area to lubricate apex seals.
Fit a COF/SOHN and the sump oil still performs a cooling role and lubricates moving parts but it doesn't enter the combustion area because the only oil entering that area comes from the contents of the tank feeding the COF/SOHN.
Am I correct? Absolutely no sump oil makes its way into the combustion area from any source other than an leaky seal if you're unfortunate enough to have one of them? And that's accident and not design.
If that is the case then Mark's response seems to support the use of fully synthetic oil following the installation of a COF/SOHN.
Fit a COF/SOHN and the sump oil still performs a cooling role and lubricates moving parts but it doesn't enter the combustion area because the only oil entering that area comes from the contents of the tank feeding the COF/SOHN.
Am I correct? Absolutely no sump oil makes its way into the combustion area from any source other than an leaky seal if you're unfortunate enough to have one of them? And that's accident and not design.
If that is the case then Mark's response seems to support the use of fully synthetic oil following the installation of a COF/SOHN.
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- nightfire10 (Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:30 pm)
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
That’s my understanding as well.
What ever oil you use in the COF/SOHN is clean oil and that is injected into the combustion chambers.
I’ll be using Idemitsu in my COF tank
And Shell Helix in the engine.
What ever oil you use in the COF/SOHN is clean oil and that is injected into the combustion chambers.
I’ll be using Idemitsu in my COF tank
And Shell Helix in the engine.
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Re: Now I've got a SOHN adapter...
There will be engine oil on the irons which will be exposed to the combustion process but it is absolutely minimal, not zero.SmuttyHutty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:43 amSo, my understanding (and PLEASE correct me if I am wrong) is that in an S1 engine the sump oil is for cooling and lubricating moving parts and also a measured amount is squirted in to the combustion area to lubricate apex seals.
Fit a COF/SOHN and the sump oil still performs a cooling role and lubricates moving parts but it doesn't enter the combustion area because the only oil entering that area comes from the contents of the tank feeding the COF/SOHN.
Am I correct? Absolutely no sump oil makes its way into the combustion area from any source other than an leaky seal if you're unfortunate enough to have one of them? And that's accident and not design.
If that is the case then Mark's response seems to support the use of fully synthetic oil following the installation of a COF/SOHN.
Rotary History;
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black