R3 Sohn

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R3 Sohn

Post by Freddie »

Hi have travelled far around this forum, and have not long since found that my Sohn adaptor is useless on a R3....but there doesn't seem.much info as to why. AWould I be right in saying that the 2 "pumps" are just regulators of the engine oil pressure to take a feed for the oiling pipes/ points, which is why it's a lot more difficult to get 2t into it than it is with the Sohn Adaptor? Has anyone succeeded in getting a 2t feed to the oilers onna R3? Thanks, Ben.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Dr. FrankenRex »

The R3 has an electronic metering pump rather than a mechanical, as such detangling it all from the ECU and the engine is incredibly difficult/ not worth the aggro, so just splash some 2T in the tank and live free and easy.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance »

It can be done:

- Block off and recycle sump feed.
-re-route feed to a 2t tank
-install a low pressure pump with a blow off feed back to the 2t tank.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Freddie »

Thanks for the replys guys....I do put 2t in the petrol tank, but my mission to have a 6 figure engine needs engine oil and seal lube seperated ( my OCD does too) it looks as if the two pps are in series and have a single feed and a return. Sure those two cd be linked to a pump and return to a 2t tank, but would not the pumps pressure relate to the amount of 2t getting to the seal injectors?
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Freddie »

Thanks for the replys guys....I do put 2t in the petrol tank, but my mission to have a 6 figure engine needs engine oil and seal lube seperated ( my OCD does too) it looks as if the two pps are in series and have a single feed and a return. Sure those two cd belinked to a pump and return to a 2t tank. Are the black solenoid looking parts the electronic pumps? If so, shdnt it be relatively easy to get a 2t feed and return on there ?
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by AndyBrad »

interested in this but im in 2 minds if its of really that much of a benefit?
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Freddie »

Think it's one of the biggest mode.....engine oil really wasn't designed for injection....plus the oil innthensump can never be 100%clean.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by AndyBrad »

if thats the case why hasnt ryan rotary developed one? they seem to be quite good at this stuff #:)
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Freddie »

Not enough profit for a small subsection of the RX jenre? Plus, it's not an easy fix like the Sohn.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by New Duke »

AndyBrad wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:21 am
interested in this but im in 2 minds if its of really that much of a benefit?
Not necessarily. It's a well trodden topic. It's debatable whether it's even a money saver on S1 RX8s, once you take into account the cost of the mod and the oil over x time period. I think that more beneficial on an R3, if an owner is worried, would be checking that all the oil injectors are working properly and replacing any faulty ones.

Having said that hope you have fun with whatever mod you do Freddie.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by warpc0il »

New Duke wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:20 pm
It's debatable whether it's even a money saver on S1 RX8s, once you take into account the cost of the mod and the oil over x time period.
The cost of the oil is near zero, given that exactly the same amount of oil is consumed, it's just 2T rather than four-stroke engine oil, being used.

My 2T is actually cheaper, per litre, than the engine oil, so it's a net saving for me. :thumleft:
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Freddie »

Surely is about type and quality of oil going into the oil injectors, and lubricating the precious seals...I change oil monthly ATM but wdnt do if I had 2t going into the pumps.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by New Duke »

Monthly?!

Alright, I'm out. I think we entered... The Twilight Zone.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Freddie »

:oops: what? Doesnt everyone do a 5l suckout every monthish? And whats this thing about cost.....if id wanted an economy vehicle id have bought a Toyota Corolla ( its our other car and costs next to nothing) I bought Freddy cause he has a precious diamond under his bonnet, and ill do whatevers neccessary to keep it clean and happy for the next 74000+ miles. This is why im interested in seperating oils as well as lots of other bits to keep that rotor rotorating! :thumright:
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Ollie »

As far as the R3 goes the extra injector and I think different oil rate made up for the potential issues the S1 may have had due to only 2 injectors/a driven mechanical OMP. Personally I wouldn't seek to change whats not broken... Theres nothing particularly wrong with burning semi synth or mineral oil in the combustion chamber other than it may be dirty (but if you change your oil at regular non monthish intervals... like yearly/6k miles or whatever some people do) you should likely be fine.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Freddie »

I think that Mazda have done certain things to make the car more " palletable", this being one....most " normal " car drivers don't want to deal with two different oils, so Mazda amalgamated the two. Even though it could be said that the rotary engine oil has a lot less stress in comparison to a reciprocating engine, it would still benifit from being fully synthetic, and the 2t seperate.
As for the 2 pumps, one has 4 exits and the other, 2 so presume that the 2 pipe is higher pressure than the 4, ....dunno, will keep research ing till I get an R3 with 2t. " Oil is the blood of the engine"
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Ollie »

I mean, Mazda did things for cost reduction sure. But they wouldn't have released a car that didn't function. Like I've said and others have you're trying to find a solution to something you don't particularly need to solve. That's up to you obviously.

I'm personally yet to hear of an R3 owner having issues running things the way they are.

But good luck regardless. Just seems like adding things that can go wrong to a system that completes its job already. :shrug:
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Freddie »

See where your coming from, but, why are Sohns so poperlear that the club's doing a group thing on buying them? Wether auto pumps/ centre feeds are better than manual is irrelevant to the type of oil they use.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by SmuttyHutty »

New Duke wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:40 pm
Monthly?!

Alright, I'm out. I think we entered... The Twilight Zone.
We were in the Twilight Zone last month when oil changes were fortnightly...so we're extending the interval. I reckon by Easter we might be heading towards an annual change...
Freddie wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:56 pm
Hope its ok to revisit an old one.....have been changing oil fortnightly after purchasing (mk2) and have been taking it outa the sunroof so to say... i got 5 litres every time, and am quite happy with the results. TF, is it not ok to take the cover off of the gearstick seal, and suck it out. Obv with a clean unit, you can see whats come out, and replace the same. Im limited in my capacity for raising my car so am looking at all alternatives if poss. Some may say that i wouldnt be removing all, but any vehicle, and gearbox will have residual oil in that contaminated the new, esp our rotary engines, so isnt this the same?
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Ollie »

They are popular on the S1 due to lower oil rates (this can be mapped higher) and less oil reaching the chamber where it needs to go.

Something the R3s system was designed to address. With two extra injectors aiming to where the S1s injectors weren't getting oil the problem of oil not getting where it needed to go was solved.

Beyond that it's purely a clean oil feed.. But as you yourself have noted, there isn't a solution directly for the R3.. Because no one sees a reason to create one. It's as simple as that really.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by warpc0il »

It's more about critical mass for the market for such a product.

There are only 455 R3s still registered in the UK and 142 of those are currently SORN'd.

Most of those are owned by people that wouldn't understand this thread, let alone go looking for a technical solution, even if one existed. So it's just not worth the product development costs.

The S1 Sohn/COFS is a passive product, so as long as it's properly engineered and installed, it's a low-risk solution.

The R3 would require an active product, including a new external pump. This gets into a whole new area of risk, especially given the catastrophic and almost instantaneous impact of failure.

So, could the S2 design be improved by providing a clean oil feed? - almost certainly, Yes.
Would it make commercial sense for someone to produce an aftermarket kit? - probably not.
Would it make sense for an individual to create one-off solution for their one car? - Why not, as long as they have the engineering skill and can manage the potential risk.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by SprintRX8 »

Doesn’t the R3 have three oil injectors.
Also the R3 actually pumps more oil into the Chambers.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by warpc0il »

It actually pumps very slightly less, most of the time, just through 6 jets rather than 4 jets.

Under normal road conditions an R3 "consumes" less oil than an S1, assuming that they were both being driven the same.

However, on track the R3 will consume slightly more, as the control curve from the PCM is higher as revs and load increases.

Some rotary specialists offer "OMP delivery rate" remapping for the S1 to increase it's oiling at higher revs/load.
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by Freddie »

Isn't " it " a " they " ? 2 pumps that have 2 outs and 4 outs respectivly
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Re: R3 Sohn

Post by warpc0il »

"It" as in an R3 OMP system.
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