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Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:07 pm
by casey
John, I think the best thing to do would be to warn the dealer when you drop your car off that you are aware that a significant number of cars have had leaks after this work has been done and ask them to THOROUGHLY check there are no fuel tank leaks before you collect and ask them again when you collect, "are you 100% certain there are no leaks?". Once you collect, I suggest you immediately go to the nearest petrol station (even if not your favourite fuel!), brim the tank and check for any fuel under the car. Hopefully not, but if it leaks, phone the dealer straight away from the forecourt and demand they send a technician out and fix it on the forecourt, or recover it back to their workshop. I don't recommend you drive it with a leak.

My dealer sent out a tech to do this at my home to rectify the leak shown in the video. He came out, removed the clamping rings and seal, cleaned it all up and r-seated it all. Unfortunately, when I went to refuel later in the day, it still leaked, so you'd still need to check even then.

It might even be worth drafting up a note and leaving it with the dealer on drop-off, stating that they have checked and confirmed there are no leaks from the fuel tank. Make sure they sign it before you move your car. If they don't want to sign it, ask them why not.

Maybe, just maybe, DVSA and Mazda will see the potential seriousness of this issue and act quickly to contact dealers and give some instructions so that this won't happen in future.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:10 pm
by casey
For information, this is the letter that I have sent on behalf of all RX-8 owners to DVSA, copied to Mazda UK:

RX8 Fuel Tank - DVSA v1.1 ex phone.pdf
(199.22 KiB) Downloaded 19 times


I thought I should also back this up by sending an email to Mazda UK customer service: mmukassistance@mazdaeur.com detailing my personal experience and referencing the letter. I am happy to share this email with you and urge anyone who has not done so to also email Mazda if you have experienced a fuel leak as a result of this recall.

Hi

On August 19 I took my car to Underwoods Mazda, Colchester for the above recall work. On filling my fuel tank around 48 hours later, I drove back from the forecourt and parked up at my home, half a mile away. As I got out of my car I noticed a trail of liquid on the road behind my car. I looked underneath and saw this:



I estimate I lost about 12 litres of fuel. I immediately phoned Underwoods who sent a technician to my home who attempted to rectify the issue. I again took my car to fill up, leaving the inspection hatches open. As I filled my tank I kept checking all was OK, but when I got near to filling the tank I noticed a fuel leak around the driver side fuel tank cover. It was minor at this point, so risked driving my car the half mile to Underwoods (stressfully!). They again did some rectification work, but said they would order a new seal, which was fitted on my third visit (plus home visit) in dealing with this recall. I am pleased to report I have had no issue since, but am concerned at what could have happened with such a serious leak.

I love my car, which I bought new in September 2004, 16 years ago. This is the longest time I have owned a car in my life! I’m a big Mazda fan, but I also own 2 series one RX-7’s, one of which has featured in your Zoom-Zoom magazine. Mazda UK also ran a short article about me and one of my RX-7’s for the 40th anniversary of the RX-7:

https://www.insidemazda.co.uk/2018/06/1 ... r-stories/

However, my recent experience puts a huge dent in my faith in the Mazda after care service.

In my role as secretary of the RX-8 Owners Club UK, I recently asked club members and other owners for their experiences of this recall work. What I found from 94 responses was quite shocking. I sent a letter (yesterday, attached) to both DVSA and Mazda UK, highlighting serious concerns, on behalf of all owners, of the frequency of fuel tank leaks following recall work carried out at Mazda dealers from Inverness to Eastbourne. Since I sent that letter, 2 more fuel leaks have come to my notice via Social Media, one with a video similar to mine:



I would urge Mazda UK, together with your dealership chain, to take urgent action to prevent any more RX-8’s leaving dealerships with fuel tank leaks and help restore my, and other owner’s faith in the Mazda brand. These things happen, it’s the way that organisations react when confronted with customer concerns that defines and confirms their true values of caring for customers.

If you would like any further information, do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:49 am
by Delanor
It seems to be a common problem USA Fuel leak
interesting about the effectiveness of locking ring tightening tools makes me wonder how many "Mazda Technicians" actually used the appropriate tool or did they just rely on a belt and braces approach hence the leak problems.


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Del.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:59 am
by warpc0il
When I was looking, back in January 2019, there were no reports of related fuel leaks on rx8club.com, even any that could have justified the original recall; though some people had managed to cause leaks by removing and incorrectly re-fitting the rings/seals while changing the pump.

It's interesting that thread was started in July this year.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:10 pm
by Delanor
USA owner.

My 8 is a S1 2005. I recently got back from a year long trip at work that separated me from my car for almost 60 weeks. My first fill up after getting back, I hadn't even gotten back in my car from retrieving my pump receipt before I noticed a huge puddle of gas leaking out from my car. After looking underneath the car, I noticed a waterfall of gas cascading down from my tanks. I had a friend push me off the growing puddle and I started it and raced home. After leaking out about 1/2 a tank of gas it stopped.

Does this sound like its due to the recall? Has anyone heard of a problem like this?

I dropped it off at the dealer a few days ago and hadn't heard back. After calling today apparently the only details I got were, "The fuel tank work isn't going well"....

Hopefully I get more useful details tomorrow, and hopefully my dealer makes it right

.......................................................................................................................................................

it was due to the recall. I can't believe it can leak soo badly. On my way to pick it up now. But the service rep told me that my seals had completely cracked through and started to disintegrate. He said after the recall replacements, the leak is fixed. I still don't know if they had to change anything other than lm what was listed In the recall.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:32 pm
by Delanor
Makes me wonder how many owners have had the recall done but have never filled the tank only to find out some time at a later date that their car may catch fire after a fill up. :-k :shock:

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Del.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:00 pm
by casey
Delanor wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:32 pm
Makes me wonder how many owners have had the recall done but have never filled the tank only to find out some time at a later date that their car may catch fire after a fill up. :-k :shock:

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Del.
That's been one of my concerns too :( If it does happen a long time after the recall work then it'll be easy for Mazda/dealer to deny it was related.

The FMW fuel pump ring tool is one "special tool" that the committee discussed purchasing to hold for loan to members. As time goes buy it's more and more likely that members will need to work on their fuel pump or basket, and most of the cheaper tools out there are pretty hopeless. It's expensive to buy for maybe just "one-off" use.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:23 pm
by Delanor
Looking at the actual Mazda lock ring tool it only locates on 2 lugs per side of the lock ring so in theory any multi lug lock ring tool would be an improvement and although the FMW tool looks the best it is expensive @ '£50 + shipping from the US + taxes + no doubt Royal Mail`s pound of flesh. :roll:

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Del.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:04 pm
by PaulAV
Anyone with a welder could easily make the appropriate tool, with the aid of an old socket and some square bar

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:21 pm
by warpc0il
A variation on that tool, such that it fits on 3 ridges, would be easier to use and put a more even force in the ring.

It doesn't need to be adjustable if it's dedicated to use on an 8.

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Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:37 pm
by ChrisHolmes
I have a 3 legged tool but even that can slip. Having applied as much force as possible think the ring was fully tightened I was able to drift it round almost another 1/4 turn. The enemy to tightening is the thread profile which is flat on top meaning you have the top surface of the ring Rubbing on the pump plate and the all the threads top surfaces contacting the flat surfaces of the pump body creating a lot of static friction to overcome.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:16 pm
by Delanor
The FMW tool doesn't look too difficult to make - I am in need of a new project.

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Del.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:03 pm
by PaulAV
Del I would recommend starting with an old socket and wood to it.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:50 pm
by ChrisHolmes
Delanor wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:16 pm
The FMW tool doesn't look too difficult to make - I am in need of a new project.

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Del.
A few evening with some 3mm plate and a Dremel should sort it.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:50 pm
by jim5589
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Essex Mazda (kent Elms Corner) late 2018
4. NA
5. No
6. Yes
7. No


Apparently there is a guy working at this branch who owns a RX8 so any RX8s that come in for recalls or other work get handed to him so probably a safe place to get recalls done if your close enough

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:05 pm
by PaulAV
I got told the same at Coventry Mazda. It's either a technician thing (they like rotaries) or the staff have been briefed to say this to install a sense of confidence

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:35 am
by gm6cmq
Hello, I have booked my RX8 into Arnold Clark Mazda Kirkcaldy for December. My thinking was get the recalls done to keep DVLA happy, then inspect the work myself, build a tool and lift and check the seals. When happy i can then fill the tank. I will be asking if they have the correct tooling available.

I assume they do both left and right sides on the tank as they must have the same seals?

We also did the Cruise control mod, i thinking of fitting the spare PCM I have (with key and box) in case they upgrade the PCM data and lock out cruise control.

I will update once recalls done.

Anyone else had the work done at Kirkcaldy?

Danny.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:52 am
by rotatopotato
I've updated my original post here as the work has now been done: viewtopic.php?p=1281799#p1281799

No problems at all 👍

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:08 pm
by casey
Glad to hear you had no issues Jason :thumleft:

I chased Mazda UK on Tuesday this week (so 3 days ago), asking for an update on their discussions with the DVSA on this issue. No response as of today.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:42 pm
by casey
I'm very disappointed to report that I have had no response to my emails of 10 Oct and 10 Nov, beyond an acknowledgement of receipt and the statement, "we are in discussion with DVSA".

The impression given is that Mazda UK hope this will simply "go away".

If I have not heard by 10 Dec I will chase again. This time I will mention that, if there is no suitable response, I intend to approach BBC "Watchdog" and other media channels to see if they are interested in the story. BBC Watchdog have previously covered fires in Vauxhall Zafiras and Corsas, so it may be of sufficient interest to cover on TV.

In my personal opinion, this is doing serious damage to the image I had of the Mazda brand. I had been looking at purchasing another (no-rotary) Mazda, but I'm now having serious reservations.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:57 pm
by Octatonic
Thank you for continuing to pursue this. I have also had the recall done. I have virtually no sense of smell (since childhood) but my partner had a rare lift in the 8 today and remarked on a persistent petrol smell inside the car. Once she'd drawn it to my attention I could detect it as well. I'll investigate further but suffice to say I'm interested to see how your efforts turn out.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:50 am
by auditt235
casey wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:42 pm
I'm very disappointed to report that I have had no response to my emails of 10 Oct and 10 Nov, beyond an acknowledgement of receipt and the statement, "we are in discussion with DVSA".

The impression given is that Mazda UK hope this will simply "go away".

If I have not heard by 10 Dec I will chase again. This time I will mention that, if there is no suitable response, I intend to approach BBC "Watchdog" and other media channels to see if they are interested in the story. BBC Watchdog have previously covered fires in Vauxhall Zafiras and Corsas, so it may be of sufficient interest to cover on TV.

In my personal opinion, this is doing serious damage to the image I had of the Mazda brand. I had been looking at purchasing another (no-rotary) Mazda, but I'm now having serious reservations.
Keep up the good work. I think the watchdog/press approach is a good idea...Watchdog/which magazine tend to take consumer safety seriously. As for DVSA...I used to Chair a Vehicle Safety Committee with attending vehicle manufacturers Ford PSA and Rover Group...it could take years to get some obvious issues solved...but on the other hand sometimes it was very effective!

John

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:21 pm
by gm6cmq
Just to update my previous post, now had the recall work done.

1) Yes (four recalls, Tank seals, Air bags - driver, passenger and extra fuel tank lagging?)
2) Yes
3) Arnold Clark Mazda Kirkcaldy, December 2020.
4) N/A
5) No leaks detected
6) Yes, Tank filled twice to Full, seems OK, Dry at both access points NS and OS.
7) No issues

Images as below.

The near side fuel tank cover seems to have a new ring, the off side (Pump) seems to have a new ring and top pump plate from what I can see.

The foam sheet appears to be plugging the gap between the fuel tank and the car body on the front leading edge of the fuel tank.

Regards Danny.
recall fuel pump side.jpg
recall fuel tank offside.jpg
recall fuel tank foam seen through access hole..jpg
recall fuel tank foam1.jpg

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:52 pm
by geofftl1000r
Forgot to update this thread. Took the car to T W White & Sons in Bookham on the 7th December. Fuel pump recall and passenger airbag work was done and a shiny new MOT.
Not had chance to fill the car yet so no idea if the car will leak or not but keeping my fingers crossed. Very nice team over there.

Re: UPDATE Page 4: **SAFETY ALERT: Fuel Tank recall - Fuel Leaks & Other Issues"

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:55 pm
by Harrycg93
Took my car to get the long list of recalls done after getting the notice. Came home, smelt fuel and saw a wet exhaust and driveway.

Does anyone know if VOSA have been contacted about this as it's so common for this to happen? How many cars are out there that are a fire risk that haven't noticed a fuel leak?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Romford Mazda, December 30 2020
4. N/A
5. Yes
6. N/A
7. No other issues notedImage

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