Fake parts for your RX-8
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Fake parts for your RX-8
As a community we have been talking forever about fake ignition coils but these days they’re far from the only fake parts being offered for your car.
“Fake” coils include replicas of the Mazda OEM coils sold in convincing branded boxes, having been produced in a factory in China and sold wholesale for $3 each. These factories switched their production to “Rev C” even before those parts became available through the official Mazda parts channels.
Some fake coils are less sophisticated and don’t claim to be the genuine article, just “compatible”. This makes them slightly more honest but no less likely to fail – sometimes almost immediately but often just when you least expect it - “It can’t be a failed coil, as I’ve just replaced them” - plus it takes an experienced ear to detect a non-firing trailing plug.
Other suppliers actually put their own brands on these products but the failure rate is just as high, this includes NGK, which is further complicated by there being both real and fake NGK-branded coils on the market, none of which are any good.
Switching to D585 coils doesn’t help, as there are even more fake D585 coils on the market and some of those are so bad that they’re just as likely to catch fire, as fire your engine. The loom adapters to fit these to the RX-8 can be just as bad.
Similarly, there are both (fake) branded, poor branded and non-branded replacement HT leads that are joining the queue to kill your engine.
Fake NGK spark plugs have been around for more than 40 years, mainly targeting the part numbers used by popular family cars, SUVs and hot hatches. We had been immune until about 5 years ago, because the RX-8 plugs are so niche. However, the fakers must have noticed the retail price for a set of RX-8 plugs and just couldn’t resist it. There are probably more fake coils and plugs available now than real ones.
We see a similar situation with brake pads.
All the common brands are being faked and the materials and construction is often way below safety standards. They can catch fire, or fall apart, or turn to dust in a few hundred miles, or just not stop the car like they should.
The same can be said of oil and air filters. It doesn’t take much imagination to visualise what can happen if a fake oil filter either fails to filter the oil or collapses and blocks the flow.
This takes us back to the area of “compatible” rather than outright “fake”.
Any supplier that offers the same oil filter for both the Series 1 and R3 is not to be trusted, as the genuine parts are significantly different, due to the higher bypass pressure required in the R3.
The same argument applies in many other areas, such as the front O2 sensor. Mazda had to specify a different part for the 231 and the 192 because they couldn’t get the same part to perform properly in both. Strange that many aftermarket suppliers quote both different Mazda part numbers as compatible with their single offering – they’re just lying.
This is the same lie that applies to replacement suspension springs.
Mazda used a whole bunch of different springs during the production of the RX-8, these include;
- Series 1 “Standard” suspension. Not fitted to any UK-spec cars but common in the US, JDM and some other markets, especially (but not limited to) those with auto transmission.
- Series 1 “Sports” suspension. This is what most of our cars came with, unless listed below.
- PZ suspension. Totally bespoke and unique dampers and springs, only now available through the Club Shop.
- Series 1 40th Anniversary. Also unique and not even all the same (at least 3 different versions) as Mazda tried to replicate the PZ performance using off-the-shelf parts.
- Series 2 “Standard” suspension. Again not fitted to any UK-spec cars but some JDM etc.
- Series 2 “Sports” suspension. This is what is fitted on UK-spec R3s
So we have at least six, and more like eight, significantly different suspension springs fitted to RX-8s, but so many suppliers are happy to list all or any combination of the related part numbers as “compatible” with their single replacement spring. They just don’t care.
Understand that the parts mentioned above doesn’t paint a complete picture (I haven’t even talked about cats or tyres) and that they’re not only being sold through ebay and such. Walk into your local motor factor and that’s often what you’ll be sold
Sticking to the dealer network doesn’t always help as these fakes (coils and plugs) have been known to be supplied by dealers and it’s unclear at what point in the supply chain they’ve been injected – just the dealer buying from a dodgy source or somewhere further back. Dealers can also get lazy/confused and assume that a later part, e.g. the R3 oil filter, must be backwards compatible with the earlier cars – which it isn’t.
With many fake parts these days, the price isn’t always an indication of “real or not real”.
Too cheap and it’s (almost) certainly a fake but the retail prices can be so high that even what appears “cheap” to those of us in the know, may still have looked reassuringly expensive to the previous owner of the car you just bought.
Fakers have also caught on to this and often sell at prices approaching 90% of retail list. Some ebay sellers even offer the same items on a BIN listing over the retail price – as some idiot/desperate person may bite and it gives credibility to the auction listings – where someone might think they’ve scored a bargain.
Be careful out there. Only buy through suppliers you trust.
If you must buy through ebay etc, for branded parts (filters, brake pads, plugs etc) check the manufacturers website for what to lookout for in spotting fakes. Many companies were in denial for years and didn’t want the public to know that their products were being faked. Most have now realised that the best way to protect their brands and their customers is to highlight this issue and provide details.
Fakes aren't limited to servicing and replacement parts either, as there are now fake AEM and Racing Beat Intakes being produced, as poor replicas of the originals.
Please use this thread to highlight your experiences with fake, or dodgy “compatible” parts, so that others might not fall into the same trap.
I've add some links to “How to spot fakes” for some of the brands that you might be tempted by.
http://www.ngk-sparkplugs.jp/english/te ... index.html
https://www.denso.com.au/index.php?rout ... news_id=70
https://www.brembo.com/en/company/news/ ... zing-fakes
http://www.safebraking.com/fighting-fak ... erfeiters/
https://garagewire.co.uk/news/garages-w ... e%20brakes
https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/eu/en ... e-vs-fake/
https://www.facebook.com/pg/doublekauto ... 2455077595
https://textar.com/en/fighting-the-fakes/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-10846035
https://www.thenational.ae/uae/brake-pa ... k-1.773901
“Fake” coils include replicas of the Mazda OEM coils sold in convincing branded boxes, having been produced in a factory in China and sold wholesale for $3 each. These factories switched their production to “Rev C” even before those parts became available through the official Mazda parts channels.
Some fake coils are less sophisticated and don’t claim to be the genuine article, just “compatible”. This makes them slightly more honest but no less likely to fail – sometimes almost immediately but often just when you least expect it - “It can’t be a failed coil, as I’ve just replaced them” - plus it takes an experienced ear to detect a non-firing trailing plug.
Other suppliers actually put their own brands on these products but the failure rate is just as high, this includes NGK, which is further complicated by there being both real and fake NGK-branded coils on the market, none of which are any good.
Switching to D585 coils doesn’t help, as there are even more fake D585 coils on the market and some of those are so bad that they’re just as likely to catch fire, as fire your engine. The loom adapters to fit these to the RX-8 can be just as bad.
Similarly, there are both (fake) branded, poor branded and non-branded replacement HT leads that are joining the queue to kill your engine.
Fake NGK spark plugs have been around for more than 40 years, mainly targeting the part numbers used by popular family cars, SUVs and hot hatches. We had been immune until about 5 years ago, because the RX-8 plugs are so niche. However, the fakers must have noticed the retail price for a set of RX-8 plugs and just couldn’t resist it. There are probably more fake coils and plugs available now than real ones.
We see a similar situation with brake pads.
All the common brands are being faked and the materials and construction is often way below safety standards. They can catch fire, or fall apart, or turn to dust in a few hundred miles, or just not stop the car like they should.
The same can be said of oil and air filters. It doesn’t take much imagination to visualise what can happen if a fake oil filter either fails to filter the oil or collapses and blocks the flow.
This takes us back to the area of “compatible” rather than outright “fake”.
Any supplier that offers the same oil filter for both the Series 1 and R3 is not to be trusted, as the genuine parts are significantly different, due to the higher bypass pressure required in the R3.
The same argument applies in many other areas, such as the front O2 sensor. Mazda had to specify a different part for the 231 and the 192 because they couldn’t get the same part to perform properly in both. Strange that many aftermarket suppliers quote both different Mazda part numbers as compatible with their single offering – they’re just lying.
This is the same lie that applies to replacement suspension springs.
Mazda used a whole bunch of different springs during the production of the RX-8, these include;
- Series 1 “Standard” suspension. Not fitted to any UK-spec cars but common in the US, JDM and some other markets, especially (but not limited to) those with auto transmission.
- Series 1 “Sports” suspension. This is what most of our cars came with, unless listed below.
- PZ suspension. Totally bespoke and unique dampers and springs, only now available through the Club Shop.
- Series 1 40th Anniversary. Also unique and not even all the same (at least 3 different versions) as Mazda tried to replicate the PZ performance using off-the-shelf parts.
- Series 2 “Standard” suspension. Again not fitted to any UK-spec cars but some JDM etc.
- Series 2 “Sports” suspension. This is what is fitted on UK-spec R3s
So we have at least six, and more like eight, significantly different suspension springs fitted to RX-8s, but so many suppliers are happy to list all or any combination of the related part numbers as “compatible” with their single replacement spring. They just don’t care.
Understand that the parts mentioned above doesn’t paint a complete picture (I haven’t even talked about cats or tyres) and that they’re not only being sold through ebay and such. Walk into your local motor factor and that’s often what you’ll be sold
Sticking to the dealer network doesn’t always help as these fakes (coils and plugs) have been known to be supplied by dealers and it’s unclear at what point in the supply chain they’ve been injected – just the dealer buying from a dodgy source or somewhere further back. Dealers can also get lazy/confused and assume that a later part, e.g. the R3 oil filter, must be backwards compatible with the earlier cars – which it isn’t.
With many fake parts these days, the price isn’t always an indication of “real or not real”.
Too cheap and it’s (almost) certainly a fake but the retail prices can be so high that even what appears “cheap” to those of us in the know, may still have looked reassuringly expensive to the previous owner of the car you just bought.
Fakers have also caught on to this and often sell at prices approaching 90% of retail list. Some ebay sellers even offer the same items on a BIN listing over the retail price – as some idiot/desperate person may bite and it gives credibility to the auction listings – where someone might think they’ve scored a bargain.
Be careful out there. Only buy through suppliers you trust.
If you must buy through ebay etc, for branded parts (filters, brake pads, plugs etc) check the manufacturers website for what to lookout for in spotting fakes. Many companies were in denial for years and didn’t want the public to know that their products were being faked. Most have now realised that the best way to protect their brands and their customers is to highlight this issue and provide details.
Fakes aren't limited to servicing and replacement parts either, as there are now fake AEM and Racing Beat Intakes being produced, as poor replicas of the originals.
Please use this thread to highlight your experiences with fake, or dodgy “compatible” parts, so that others might not fall into the same trap.
I've add some links to “How to spot fakes” for some of the brands that you might be tempted by.
http://www.ngk-sparkplugs.jp/english/te ... index.html
https://www.denso.com.au/index.php?rout ... news_id=70
https://www.brembo.com/en/company/news/ ... zing-fakes
http://www.safebraking.com/fighting-fak ... erfeiters/
https://garagewire.co.uk/news/garages-w ... e%20brakes
https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/eu/en ... e-vs-fake/
https://www.facebook.com/pg/doublekauto ... 2455077595
https://textar.com/en/fighting-the-fakes/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-10846035
https://www.thenational.ae/uae/brake-pa ... k-1.773901
- These users thanked the author warpc0il for the post (total 11):
- casey (Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:15 pm) • 350matt (Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:21 pm) • sKenDread (Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:42 pm) • Broron (Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:40 pm) • ChrisHolmes (Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:07 pm) • Ninja_Freak (Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:15 am) • floppywing2002 (Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:04 am) • Shagrington (Sun May 24, 2020 4:33 pm) • Pingping010101 (Mon May 25, 2020 9:29 am) • GraemeC (Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:56 am) and one more user
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
Top post Dave thanks
I'm assuming Euro car parts and my local factors are OK as I've dealt with them for years but its not impossible their supply chain gets 'contaminated' with inferior stuff
I'm assuming Euro car parts and my local factors are OK as I've dealt with them for years but its not impossible their supply chain gets 'contaminated' with inferior stuff
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
Euro Car Parts often list the same "compatible" replacements for what should be different parts.
They also got caught a few years ago shipping fake Brembo and other brake pads. They said that they were genuine, just sourced through a direct channel rather than the official UK importers, but they proved to be fakes.
Other outlets owned by the same group as ECP also had the same issue.
Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
They also got caught a few years ago shipping fake Brembo and other brake pads. They said that they were genuine, just sourced through a direct channel rather than the official UK importers, but they proved to be fakes.
Other outlets owned by the same group as ECP also had the same issue.
Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
When I managed the Pakistan export house business for Perkins Powerpart I sat in a traders shop in downtown Lahore and asked for samples of each piston brand he sold for the Perkins 3.152 engine. I think it got up to over 10 examples and three of those were in Perkins branded boxes! What was really weird was that he had LUK and Lucas boxed pistons and they never made pistons. When challenged on this he said some customer like the LUK and Lucas brand so they like to buy things in those boxes!
Not one of the pistons in the various boxes came from the same supplier so huge was the “number two” business over there
Great days but the OE brainwashed marketing guys in Peterborough could comprehend the Pakistan parts market.
Not one of the pistons in the various boxes came from the same supplier so huge was the “number two” business over there
Great days but the OE brainwashed marketing guys in Peterborough could comprehend the Pakistan parts market.
Rotary History;
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
That's an interesting definition of "number two" business
I suppose the next obvious question is, were any of the clones any good, or were they all sh!t?
I suppose the next obvious question is, were any of the clones any good, or were they all sh!t?
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
Added some links to the original post, including this one from the UAE
https://www.thenational.ae/uae/brake-pa ... k-1.773901
https://www.thenational.ae/uae/brake-pa ... k-1.773901
- These users thanked the author warpc0il for the post:
- ChrisHolmes (Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:23 pm)
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
If they were sh!t the traders would soon be in the sh!t it was a very structured market in downtown Lahore controlled by a couple of large importers.
Very, very interesting group of people. I was once taken on the best trip in my life all the way to Landi Kotal to see an Afghan importers storage yards, one with 500,000 genuine CAV 629 fuel filters!
Have look for Landi Kotal on Google maps!
Rotary History;
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
You don't get many warranty complaints from people that suffer total brake failure.
It's a bit like the watch with the lifetime guarantee, when the mainspring breaks it slashes your wrist
It's a bit like the watch with the lifetime guarantee, when the mainspring breaks it slashes your wrist
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
I've been running a set of compatible d585 coils for an American V8 for 9/12 and they are excellent
I also stuck a set of compatible or type coils in a cheap non runner , the originals were clearly suffering burning with heat damage on the cases
Again , excellent.
Some compatible stuff is grand
I'd change coils with every plug change as 8's kill them
I also stuck a set of compatible or type coils in a cheap non runner , the originals were clearly suffering burning with heat damage on the cases
Again , excellent.
Some compatible stuff is grand
I'd change coils with every plug change as 8's kill them
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
Counterfeiting affects so much these days - I have just been looking for HP inkjet cartridges mine can sell for £34-£35 per pair plus post - someone based in the US is selling them on eBay shipped in the UK as "genuine" for £10.85 inc post.
182 so far sold - a case of if it looks too good to be true me thinks!
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*
Del.
182 so far sold - a case of if it looks too good to be true me thinks!
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*
Del.
1st Brilliant Black 190. 2nd Brilliant Black PZ. 3rd Strato Blue 230. 4th Crystal White 40th Anniversary.
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Rotary FX fender grills, Japspeed stainless exhaust, Cosworth Air filter, Kinetix slotted & dimpled discs, EBC Red stuff pads, Ryan Rotary MK11 coils, Magnecor leads, Stainless front & rear grills, HID main beams, LED tail lights, front side lights/front fogs.
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
"Genuine" HP inkjet cartridges produced for the US market won't work in a UK/European printer, as HP put regional limitations on their products, to prevent "grey imports".
So these cartridges are either fakes, or unofficial imports (that won't work) or UK/European stock that is somehow being re-routed through the US...
So these cartridges are either fakes, or unofficial imports (that won't work) or UK/European stock that is somehow being re-routed through the US...
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
I've K&N oil filters to use, I bought from amazon uk a few years ago. Still havent used them due to paranoia ... Probably fine, but.....
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
After selling over 200 whatever they are they have disappeared from eBay.warpc0il wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 6:46 pm"Genuine" HP inkjet cartridges produced for the US market won't work in a UK/European printer, as HP put regional limitations on their products, to prevent "grey imports".
So these cartridges are either fakes, or unofficial imports (that won't work) or UK/European stock that is somehow being re-routed through the US...
*
*
Del.
1st Brilliant Black 190. 2nd Brilliant Black PZ. 3rd Strato Blue 230. 4th Crystal White 40th Anniversary.
Rotary FX fender grills, Japspeed stainless exhaust, Cosworth Air filter, Kinetix slotted & dimpled discs, EBC Red stuff pads, Ryan Rotary MK11 coils, Magnecor leads, Stainless front & rear grills, HID main beams, LED tail lights, front side lights/front fogs.
Rotary FX fender grills, Japspeed stainless exhaust, Cosworth Air filter, Kinetix slotted & dimpled discs, EBC Red stuff pads, Ryan Rotary MK11 coils, Magnecor leads, Stainless front & rear grills, HID main beams, LED tail lights, front side lights/front fogs.
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
While we're on the subject there are also a lot of "clone" tyres on the market.
Many of these have very similar tread patterns to the tyres that you might recognise and they often have brand names and logos that could be confused for the premium brands, only with slight differences in spelling.
So far I've yet to see evidence of actual fake tyres but these "near replicas" are just as good at finding ditches as those with brands you've never heard of...
Many of these have very similar tread patterns to the tyres that you might recognise and they often have brand names and logos that could be confused for the premium brands, only with slight differences in spelling.
So far I've yet to see evidence of actual fake tyres but these "near replicas" are just as good at finding ditches as those with brands you've never heard of...
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
I've had first hand experience of this. Bought a used VW Polo privately for the missus to learn in a couple of years back, and the tyres had "Continental" stamped on the sidewall. Completely different font to normal, and the tyres had no markings on them anywhere, other than the size and the brand. No idea where they came from, but needless to say they weren't on for very long!warpc0il wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 12:17 pmWhile we're on the subject there are also a lot of "clone" tyres on the market.
Many of these have very similar tread patterns to the tyres that you might recognise and they often have brand names and logos that could be confused for the premium brands, only with slight differences in spelling.
So far I've yet to see evidence of actual fake tyres but these "near replicas" are just as good at finding ditches as those with brands you've never heard of...
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
I've recently had the clutch replaced on my RX8 and I spent weeks - genuinely weeks - researching companies through which to buy an Exedy clutch. There are some absolute horror stories of fake clutch plates put in realistic looking OEM boxes, or sometimes a real clutch plate but a fake release bearing.
None of us want to pay over the odds for a component and it is always worth shopping around. I found a UK supplier offering the clutch at a fair price which was there or thereabouts within the price range.
None of us want to pay over the odds for a component and it is always worth shopping around. I found a UK supplier offering the clutch at a fair price which was there or thereabouts within the price range.
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
Found out a few days ago the rx8 Ive just bought has fake coils and fake ngk leads. Took it to a specialist for a full reset service so among other things it's now got new plugs, but they didn't have any genuine coils or leads. So now I'm looking for the best price for some genuine.
2004 Winning Blue, Black Leather, 192
Minimap, K&N Air Filter, RRP Mk3 Coils, Racingbeat Catback, Krown protected
Based in Long Eaton
Minimap, K&N Air Filter, RRP Mk3 Coils, Racingbeat Catback, Krown protected
Based in Long Eaton
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
Why not go for RRP coils? not much more than OEM and a better part
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Re: Fake parts for your RX-8
They look good. If they're the real deal then I'll order some. Thanks mate.
2004 Winning Blue, Black Leather, 192
Minimap, K&N Air Filter, RRP Mk3 Coils, Racingbeat Catback, Krown protected
Based in Long Eaton
Minimap, K&N Air Filter, RRP Mk3 Coils, Racingbeat Catback, Krown protected
Based in Long Eaton