So..PZ Suspension

[willberry70]

Hi Guys,
So I have a standard suspension at the mo, and I know the PZ suspension is 60% firmer etc, but I also like to be to cruise in comfort and zip around bumpy country roads without needing a new spine.

So is the PZ sacrificing ride comfort for track performance or is it just better in every way

Cheers in advance

[ChrisHolmes]

The PZ suspension isn't 60% firmer than the sports suspension that's came on every uk-spec 8.

What it is is better controlled that the original suspension, when new, which makes it much better than worn tired original suspension.

It actually rides better on the road, as well as the track.

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[v-rex]

Couple of anecdotes:

1. When I got my prodrive track day in 2006, we also got a sort of advanced driving course as well. Not only was the PZ suspension at least 15 mph faster on every corner than normal rx8's, so much so that they didn't allow them on track at the same time as the PZ's, it was also magnificent on the country roads near the MIRA test track. They specifically said they had designed it for both the track and windy country roads.

2. Last summer, after refitting new PZ suspension, I went up a road near a kart track called Whilton Mill. I took a guy with me who's done lots of kart and car racing and he said I can't believe how good your suspension is. Every car I've taken through this road, either grips well but is too firm and is jarring, or will at a few points extend fully and give you that stomach sensation of leaving the road. He said your car seems to grip every corner perfectly, but is still comfortable, and takes every corner in its stride. I'm very impressed.

Thanks again for everyone involved with the PZ suspension group buy. It was absolutely fantastic and I'm regretting not buying 2 sets of shocks and springs now.....

[Mherby]

I find the PZ suspension on mine more comfortable on undulating/bumpy roads than my CX3. The CX3 isn't soft and bouncy or anything, just moves about more. I haven't driven any standard RX8s to compare, but certainly no issues with comfort, my wife and baby don't seem to mind it either!

[warpc0il]

I've had my car with the (as supplied) Mazda Sports Suspension,
- then that same suspension with Racing Beat ARBs; less body roll but otherwise similar accept when just one wheel hits a bump or pothole - then more of a jarring.
- then with the original (but lower mileage) damper and Eibach Pro lowering springs; these are still progressive so not too much compromise of ride vs handling, at least on fairly smooth roads. Good on track but struggles on NI potholes.

I've also driven other members cars with PZ suspension and this convinced me to join the group buy and get a set for myself, which has been sitting in the box for a year waiting for my workshop to get finished so I can fit - as no longer able to crawl under the car outside.

[Lucky7]

I recently had a PZ set fitted as an upgrade and I was also a bit worried about ride quality. But within minutes on first drive I realised there is no sacrifice at all. It is a little firmer but the damping is better so it well controlled. I was very pleasantly surprised in this respect. My set was fitted by specialist Luke Murdoch. Very pleased.

[willberry70]

I recently had a PZ set fitted as an upgrade and I was also a bit worried about ride quality. But within minutes on first drive I realised there is no sacrifice at all. It is a little firmer but the damping is better so it well controlled. I was very pleasantly surprised in this respect. My set was fitted by specialist Luke Murdoch. Very pleased.

Thanks for the reassurance. I think I'll have to start saving

[*thomas*]

Sorry to resurrect on older thread, but how does pz compare to off the shelf Bilstein/Eibach? I can't use PZ shocks / springs in Belgium since they are illegal (almost everything you want to do on a car is ...), but Eibach springs with B6 or B8 shocks are allowed?

[*thomas*]

It might be worth contacting Bilstein and see if they have a Type Approval for the PZ units, that works in Belgium.
I believe they were TÜV Approved for Germany, if that helps.

Otherwise, their off-the-shelf units should be an improvement over the Mazda OEM Sports suspension, especially if that's already worn/tired, but it won't be as good a match as the bespoke combination.

[*thomas*]

Was going to say if the PZ was in the market there then the suspension setup would have had to of passed TUV approval?

[*thomas*]

Belgium does not accept a TÜV approval. They have made tuning cars (in whatever way) very, very difficult.

The springs need a GOCA certificate, you have to get a wheel alignment, then GOCA will check the alignment. Only than your car will be road legal.

So I doubt Bilstein will have GOCA approved PZ suspension (but I'll pop the question).

My car nog has 97 000 kms (60 000 miles) on stock sport suspension and it feels ok. Distance arch - center wheel is 38cm front and back.

[PaulAV]

If the pz suspension is a no go, would the R3 suspension be a reasonable compromise in Belgium?

[*thomas*]

If the pz suspension is a no go, would the R3 suspension be a reasonable compromise in Belgium?

Don't know. Are they just KYB units with stock mazda springs, or are they Bilstein (strut and spring)?

The R3 was never sold in Belgium (afaik), so it would only deemed legal if the springs are OEM Mazda (the shocks can be Bilstein, that's no problem).

[PaulAV]

I believe the R3 suspension was mazdas "copy" of the pz system, as close as they could get (prodrive owned the rights to its specifications I believe) I could be wrong, I'm sure someone will be along with accurate definitions and specifications, also the 40th anniversary edition may have had the same set up as the R3, again I'm not 100% certain

[New Duke]

The PZ dampers are Bilstein, the PZ springs are made by Eibach.

I think that the R3 suspension is the same deal and that Eibach was the OEM for the R3 springs. But if you want I can get my spare set of R3 suspension down from the attic tomorrow and double check the label on the springs.

The only noticeable physical difference between the R3 and PZ suspension is that the PZ spring is dual rate whereas the R3 spring is single rate, but they matched it to the PZ spring rate overall. You'd have to be very eagle eyed and know a lot about RX8s to spot a difference between the two when they're bolted on the car.

How picky are the authorities when checking all this Thomas? Does someone literally check part numbers of components during the CT? I've never seen the process myself. MOT tests in the UK sound a lot more lenient in comparison.

It's very interesting to read you say that even wheel alignment is checked. That's very thorough. Some of us here aren't fond of Mazda's alignment tables and have our wheel alignment set up specifically to be outside of Mazda's spec.

[*thomas*]

That would be great, New Duke, thanks!

In Belgium the Tech inspection is a private institute (owned by the government). So if some minister makes up a new rule about cars, it's enforced when you're having your annual check. If they suspect your car has been lowered, they inspect it more toroughly and will indeed check the writings on springs. If they are lowering springs, your car will only be road legal for three months (giving you some time to fix the problem).

The proper way of doing it and avoiding all trouble is:
- buy a set of springs (or coilovers) that come with a GOCA certificate
- have them installed by an authorized workshop (no no, you can't do this yourself) and have them fill in the paperwork
- get a wheel alignment done
- take it to the tech inspection and have them re-check the wheel alignment
- once that's ok, you're free to go

If you decide on changing your springs in the future, you'll have to go trough all this hassle again. Hence why I'm not keen on just bolting some springs on and see how it goes...

Some other no-no's in Belgium (which are almost impossible to get legal) are: bigger brakes, engine swaps, chiptuning, turbo or SC builds, tyres that give a speedo inaccuracy, other than OEM-spec suspension components (poly bushes etc), braces (other than a front top brace), braided brake lines, wheel spacers, racing seats, welded cage, flares (the list goes on).

[Harrizone]

They must throw a fit every time cars from UK visit Spa then , as very few cars that make the trip are in standard trim, most are tailored for track days and feature all or some of the items you list .

bigger brakes, engine swaps, chiptuning, turbo or SC builds, tyres that give a speedo inaccuracy, other than OEM-spec suspension components (poly bushes etc), braces (other than a front top brace), braided brake lines, wheel spacers, racing seats, welded cage, flares (the list goes on).

[*thomas*]

They must throw a fit every time cars from UK visit Spa then , as very few cars that make the trip are in standard trim, most are tailored for track days and feature all or some of the items you list .

bigger brakes, engine swaps, chiptuning, turbo or SC builds, tyres that give a speedo inaccuracy, other than OEM-spec suspension components (poly bushes etc), braces (other than a front top brace), braided brake lines, wheel spacers, racing seats, welded cage, flares (the list goes on).

They can't say anything about foreign cars .

[warpc0il]

So much for European Union regulatory alignment. ..

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[New Duke]

I was wrong. I don't believe the R3 springs are Eibach. They are probably Mazda (or generic unlisted supplier). The PZ ones proudly say 'Eibach' and 'RX8 PZ' on them. I just cleaned up all my R3 springs and other than a red circle, there are no markings on the R3 springs... at all. It's weird as even as a Mazda in-house part I would have expected a reference number or something. If only for internal part inventory for the production line.

DSC_0849.JPG

DSC_0850.JPG

So the R3 dampers are Bilstein, the R3 springs are unmarked.

I did manage to find a part number and Mazda logo on the dampers though.

Thomas, it sounds like an authoritarian nightmare and it totally makes sense how careful you have to be choosing parts.

[*thomas*]

Thanks for the pictures. Those would pass tech inspection no problem. I've lowered my Subaru Legacy in the same way using OEM springs (with pink and green dots on them) from a Japanse car (they sit lower).

Can R3 springs with B6 (or B8?) dampers be used on an S1? Can I still get them from Mazda?

[warpc0il]

You can't mix/match S1 and R3 springs as the seats are different and the dampers have a different top mount.

You could (in theory) buy complete R3 units with springs from Mazda, though last time I looked the rears were out-of-stock across the UK and Europe and a complete set would have been over £3000 (3,300 Euro)

You might find a good used set of R3 units at a more reasonable price.

There were a few being offered last year, when people were upgrading to the PZ kit, from the club group buy.

I know a few that bought in the group buy have yet to get around to fitting...

[willberry70]

Hi Guys,
Having spotted a PZ set on ebay that claim to just have surface corrosion is there anything that should put me off buying them?
No mention of how many miles are on them and listed at £300 delivered.

[willberry70]

I recently had a PZ set fitted as an upgrade and I was also a bit worried about ride quality. But within minutes on first drive I realised there is no sacrifice at all. It is a little firmer but the damping is better so it well controlled. I was very pleasantly surprised in this respect. My set was fitted by specialist Luke Murdoch. Very pleased.

Was that with a new or a used PZ set. I'm looking at a PZ set on ebay at the mo.

I too am finding my regular S1 set a bit overfirm on bumpy country roads. Sounds like a PZ set might help or are there better options?

[V8 Power]

PZ suspension is firmer than standard S1 suspension but definitely better controlled on compression and rebound.