Low emission E10 fuel

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Low emission E10 fuel

Post by pstables »

Good car choice for the stock photo on the BBC news site;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51731757

UPDATE 11 July 2021.

Your club committee asked Mazda UK for their position on use of E10 fuel in RX-8's and they quickly responded with an the official statement below. In summary, the important bit is, "E10 petrol is cleared for use in all models with petrol engines introduced in and from the year 2002".

UK Compatibility with E10 fuel.pdf
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by Essex2Visuvesi »

Oh dear.... I was hoping that they wouldn't bring this horrible stuff to the UK
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by Neilparry »

Well all be complaining our cars won’t accelerate past 4K and very slow to pull away.


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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by Nerdstrike »

I mean... carbon emissions go down because there's less energy in the fuel. So you have to buy more. How is this helping?

Also where do the gigaliters of ethanol come from?
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by manuRx8 »

In case it serves as a reference:
I have been using gasoline with an added 10% ethanol for 3 years and 30000km and the car is fabulous, better than with gasoline alone:
  • Softer
  • I do not notice loss of power (it is 192 and goes up without problems well above 8000rpm)
  • Consumption has barely increased (+ 3.7%)
  • The compression I think has even has be improved (after a year using it, with 85484 km, it had: front 8.20-8,46-7.97, rear 7.98-7.95-8.23).
The only drawback is that I don't have E10 suppliers in my area and I have to make the mixture myself (I add 3-4 ls of alcohol every time I fill the tank)
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by sKenDread »


manuRx8 wrote:In case it serves as a reference:
I have been using gasoline with an added 10% ethanol for 3 years and 30000km and the car is fabulous, better than with gasoline alone:
  • Softer
  • I do not notice loss of power (it is 192 and goes up without problems well above 8000rpm)
  • Consumption has barely increased (+ 3.7%)
  • The compression I think has even has be improved (after a year using it, with 85484 km, it had: front 8.20-8,46-7.97, rear 7.98-7.95-8.23).
The only drawback is that I don't have E10 suppliers in my area and I have to make the mixture myself (I add 3-4 ls of alcohol every time I fill the tank)
ImageImage I'd rather take the 3-4L of ethanol and mix it with distilled water and drink it (that's if it's not contaminated) ImageImage
Seriously though, is it possible it could be down to the water separation in the alcohol contributing to carbon clean out?
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by manuRx8 »

No, the cause is the higher oxygen content of alcohol; This makes that extra oxygen react with carbon, avoiding carbon deposits and reducing existing ones little by little.
In fact, alcoholic gasoline is called "oxygenated gasoline."
A study conducted in Australia for E10 determined that the CO decrease is approximately 32% and that of CO2 is 7%
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by Ollie »

Sooo cheaper car tax then? Of course not. But as long as premium petrols not E10 I don't see an issue. :p
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by Techathy »

More ethanol? Sounds like a chance to add more boost... So, guess I need to fit a turbo or supercharger kit then!
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by NeMFO »

Mighty car mods run E85 for added performance when they can get it don’t they so this sounds like great idea to me and I’m wondering where I can get ethanol from (another type of premix) . I am also wondering whether this might be a way of getting my car through an MOT without a cat. What are you thoughts?
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by Ollie »

Im sure I remember ethanol not playing well with Apex Seals but I have no idea where from.
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by warpc0il »

The problem with high ethanol fuels tends to be with fuel line seals and other non-metallic components in the fuel system, which can include pumps, filters and injectors, plus with older cars carburettors. These materials were never designed to be in contact with ethanol and can breakdown.
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by PaulAV »

NeMFO wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:40 pm
Mighty car mods run E85 for added performance when they can get it don’t they so this sounds like great idea to me and I’m wondering where I can get ethanol from (another type of premix) . I am also wondering whether this might be a way of getting my car through an MOT without a cat. What are you thoughts?
The only reason they run E85 is so they can increase boost and alter the timing, neither of which is of much use to the rx8 unless forced induction is used. The mot requires a car to be fitted on cars under a certain age/if they were manufactured with one, regardless of emissions.
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by delta0 »

Risky but can we advance timing with more ethanol in there?
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by warpc0il »

Not only risky, as the slightest detonation can implode a rotary, but all the evidence shows that there's also no power advantage in advancing the ignition.

This is why our PCMs make no attempt to creep the advance, no matter what fuel you give them.

Many piston engines will creep the advance until the knock sensor triggers, then back off a tad.
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by warpc0il »

According to ACEA (European automobile manufacturers association)
ACEA wrote:Mazda:
E10 petrol is cleared for use in all models with petrol engines introduced in and from the year 2002,
Mazda6 (GG/GY) and models with petrol engines introduced thereafter, i.e:
 Mazda2: DY/DE.
 Mazda3: BK/BL.
 Mazda5: CR/CW.
 MX-5: NC.
 Mazda6: GG/GY/GH.
 CX-5: KE.
 CX-7: ER.
 CX-9: TB.
RX-8: SE.
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by PaulAV »

Isn't this regarding ethanol safe components like hoses, fittings and pumps, for instance they don't dissolve in ethanol, more than anything else?
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by warpc0il »

Yes, those as well as the engines.
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by Nerdstrike »

Dissolving components never stopped people quaffing 10% ethanol solutions...
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by New Duke »

Interesting that it lowers mpg even further. I wonder if they accurately accounted for increased consumption in their statistics claiming lower overall emissions. Knowing how statistics are used to frame a narrative, I doubt it.

But good news! It will allow fuel sellers to sell fuel for the same price per litre, but with 10% of the fuel being a cheaper ingredient. All under the claim of helping the environment which makes it an easier sell for governments. It's genius.

Looking forward to seeing what mpg I can get from this slop at Snetterton (my control test track) where I get 4-5 mpg on E5.
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by Honkytonk »

For christ's sake can't we just switch to hydrogen for our rotaries yet?
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Re: Low emission fuel

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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by geofftl1000r »

I was having issues with my bike running on Shell fuel. So I wrote them an email asking if there was any ethanol in the fuel. They replied back saying less than 10%. So that's 9.9% then?
Stopped using Shell after that for the bikes. The RX8 doesn't seem to mind the current level, whatever it is.
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by New Duke »

geofftl1000r wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:26 pm
I was having issues with my bike running on Shell fuel. So I wrote them an email asking if there was any ethanol in the fuel. They replied back saying less than 10%. So that's 9.9% then?
Stopped using Shell after that for the bikes. The RX8 doesn't seem to mind the current level, whatever it is.
It's 5% or E5. I'm pretty sure that all UK petrol has been for years, even Momentum and V Power. It's not a brand specific thing.
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Re: Low emission fuel

Post by 350matt »

taking a look on various fuel advice websites
https://www.e10fuelforthought.nsw.gov.au/facts

it seems that all mazda petrol engines since 2002 are E10 safe

I know 1990's BMW's suffer with melting fuel tanks with high concentration figures of ethanol