Low emission E10 fuel

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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by casey »

UPDATED 11 July 2021:
Added Mazda UK statement clearing use of E10 in all RX-8 models in the UK.

Latest position from the GOV.UK website on the introduction of E10 fuel:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... -responses

Government decision on E10 petrol

In line with the feedback received to this consultation, we can confirm that we’ll introduce legislation as soon as possible to require fuel suppliers and retailers to introduce E10 petrol in the standard 95-octane petrol grade by 1 September 2021. We’ll also require the higher-octane ‘Super’ grade to remain E5 to provide protection for owners of older vehicles.

Subject to parliamentary approval, the introduction of E10 at forecourts will occur during summer 2021 supported by a comprehensive communications campaign.

The initial legislation will apply to Great Britain only. In line with our obligations under the Northern Ireland Protocol, we’ll also notify the European Commission of our intention to legislate for the introduction of E10 in Northern Ireland to ensure regulations are in place before the September 2021 change in petrol grade.

UPDATE 11 July 2021. Mazda UK were asked for their position on use of E10 fuel in RX-8's and they quickly responded with an the official statement below. In summary, the important bit is, "E10 petrol is cleared for use in all models with petrol engines introduced in and from the year 2002".

UK Compatibility with E10 fuel.pdf
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by New Duke »

Darn it. Thanks for the update Malcolm.
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by Honkytonk »

Well at least if you're concerned you have the option for E5 still. Small victories I suppose, even if you're paying 5-10p/L for the privilege.

There was no way the fuel manufacturers were going to reel it back all the way as not only do they get a chance to 'water down' their fuel with ethanol and therefore make the expensive oil bit go further, but they'll also meet their climate subsidy/tax break levels with E10.

We'll just have to see how many people's cars go pop because some company hasn't communicated properly they've got that hose melting fuel.
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by PaulAV »

Mix half and half so you send up with E7.5
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by Delanor »

According to this https://www.e10fuelforthought.nsw.gov.au/facts E10 is not suitable to use in my 23 year old Porsche! :crybaby:

According to Porsche Cars Great Britain it is OK to use and will not cause any harm! :-k #-o

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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by 350matt »

the big thing with it is if its left in the tank for long periods so if your Porsche isn't driven much then stick to V power and BP ultimate

otherwise its E10 for the rest of us and it does help with knock supression so not all bad
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by Essex2Visuvesi »

E10 fuel became available in Finland about 10 years ago and the concensus was that it was rubbish.
Even tho E5 was more expensive, most cars were cheaper to run on E5 than E10 as the difference in mileage was significant
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by AndyBrad »

im more interested in the possible cleaning effects for a rotary tbh
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by casey »

First page updated with Mazda UK official statement that E10 fuel is cleared for use in all UK RX-8 models.
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by Dr. FrankenRex »

Interesting that it says 'RX8 from 2002 (SE models)' - I was under the impression the earliest RX8s were what we would call an '03 plate, and even then they were imports with the first registrations being '53s?

I mean, clearly I'm wrong, but just found it interesting.
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by Ollie »

I imagine the 2002 would be the "manufacturing" date/when the line first rolled off the factory floor type deal surely?
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by warpc0il »

Yes, the first production run was in 2002 with many of those going on to be launch vehicles, press fleet, demonstrators etc.

The first retail customer registrations in the UK were in mid-03, hence the "53" plates.
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by New Duke »

I'm curious what peoples plans are. Who's going to use E10 and who's going to use premium E5 (while it's still an option, I'm sure they'll phase that out too before long).

We know that E10 reduces mpg and how much seems to be car dependant. We have 4% reported for a 192 on the first page on this thread. But I wonder if it could vary for different 8s. For a Dacia Sandero E10 reduces mpg by 11.5% (?!) and for an i30 mpg drops by 10%.

Even assuming the conservative 4%, that equals or can be more than the price difference between premium E5 and regular E10. So even at the most conservative estimate you may as well use premium E5 and in many cars using E10 seems to be a more costly option... for worse fuel.

But anyone going to use E10? Should we have a poll?
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by Ollie »

The issue with E10 imo is the fact as you've stated Haydn, it reduces MPG. Pure E95 for example you'll likely use 2x as much as you would petrol.. But it also costs about 50p a litre or something ridiculously cheap (in some countries at least). Where as E10 is still very likely going to not be that much cheaper than E5...

I really want to know the maths behind reducing carbon foot print when you'll possibly have to buy 5-10% more petrol to go the same distances...
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by PaulAV »

When you average fuel consumption is 200-300 miles to a full tank, your mpg will hardly take a hit even at a 10% reduction, 20-30 miles less to a full tank
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by Ollie »

When you add that up over time Paul it makes a very big difference. 30 miles a tank over 10 tanks is a whole tank extra you had to buy to get the same distance that you possibly had before for 11 tanks. Obviously MPG changes etc.

But the point remains, getting 30 miles less a tank and having to purchase more fuel to burn to get the same distance... Is surely more emissions not less?
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by New Duke »

Yorindesarin wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:59 pm
The issue with E10 imo is the fact as you've stated Haydn, it reduces MPG. Pure E95 for example you'll likely use 2x as much as you would petrol.. But it also costs about 50p a litre or something ridiculously cheap (in some countries at least). Where as E10 is still very likely going to not be that much cheaper than E5...

I really want to know the maths behind reducing carbon foot print when you'll possibly have to buy 5-10% more petrol to go the same distances...
E10 regular won't be any cheaper than E5 regular is. In some countries they have introduced E10 at a lower price to incentivise a sceptical market. But not in the UK. We're pliable enough as a society that there's no need. They can just sell us the 'same' fuel at the same price but say it's better for the environment. Higher profits FTW! It's genius.
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by Ollie »

Ahhh I had a feeling that would be the likely case... Ridiculous really since the 5% more Ethanol is drastically cheaper to put into the fuel than it is to sell you fuel..

I haven't put premium in since I've been south as yet since there are a lot of good garages about here where E5 is a lot better than supermarket rubbish that I had access to in Scotland. But it looks like I'll be making a move back to premium..
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by Honkytonk »

Guinea pig here!

I'll be using E10 when mine's back on the road but then I'm a cheapskate I've never been one to use 'spenny fuel except for specific circumstances. My engine ran very happily on the cheap stuff so I'm not going to argue, I know others have more picky engines/fuel trims but mine was always just as happy on supermarket green pump as fancy schmancy PowerPlusProSport+ZUltraX.

My car used to sit towards the upper end of the fuel economy range for rotaries anyway, so I'll be interested to see what happens when I start using E10, if I get 10% less economy then it'll be immediately obvious as I'll be going from around 20+mpg average to mid/upper teens (I think my lifetime average until I laid it up was about 21mpg but I'd have to check my old app data).

Then again I might not be a perfect guinea pig as it could have absolutely nothing to do with the fuel and much more to do with me not putting the car back together right. :-k Only time will tell!
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by Delanor »

Did you know that lawn mowers, generators will not run on E10 it's super unleaded for those now.

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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by Dr. FrankenRex »

Delanor wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:01 am
Did you know that lawn mowers, generators will not run on E10 it's super unleaded for those now.

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Not entirely true. It depends on the motor and what it was designed for etc.

For example, I reached out to Mountfield about our mower which is 2 years old this year and they've said it's fine for E10. Exactly where the cut off is is anyone's guess, but I suspect unless you're running some old timey engine (or one that you don't know the history/ date of manufacture etc.) then you're best off avoiding.

We'll probably just wholesale move over to super for the garden equipment, though, as the chainsaw and strimmer are old second hand ones and I can't be bothered to fill 2 separate jerry cans and keep track of them.
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by untakenname »

Tesco near me (Bromley) moved to E10 earlier last month, realised a few minutes later in traffic as I pulled away as the car was chugging below 9 miles per hour when letting off the accelerator and just letting it roll.
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by Dr. FrankenRex »

untakenname wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:07 am
Tesco near me (Bromley) moved to E10 earlier last month, realised a few minutes later in traffic as I pulled away as the car was chugging below 9 miles per hour when letting off the accelerator and just letting it roll.
I suspect this was unrelated as E10 is absolutely fine for use in the rx8 - Mazda UK have provided the club (courtesy of Malcolm) with information to that effect.
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Re: Low emission E10 fuel

Post by New Duke »

Dr. FrankenRex wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:45 am
Delanor wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:01 am
Did you know that lawn mowers, generators will not run on E10 it's super unleaded for those now.

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Del.
Not entirely true. It depends on the motor and what it was designed for etc.

For example, I reached out to Mountfield about our mower which is 2 years old this year and they've said it's fine for E10. Exactly where the cut off is is anyone's guess, but I suspect unless you're running some old timey engine (or one that you don't know the history/ date of manufacture etc.) then you're best off avoiding.

We'll probably just wholesale move over to super for the garden equipment, though, as the chainsaw and strimmer are old second hand ones and I can't be bothered to fill 2 separate jerry cans and keep track of them.
That mower is practically brand new! Our self propelled 140cc Ryobi was made in 2016 but the B&S Intek 60 in our ride on mower is over 20 years old! And runs like it! :lol:
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