Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
-
- Former Member
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:36 pm
- RX-8: 40th Anniversary
- Colour: Crystal White
- Location: Marlow
- Has thanked: 0
- Been thanked: 0
Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
I bought a 40th Anniversary last year and on the drive back home from the dealer, the yellow warning light came on. Had it checked out by the dealer's recommended rotary specialist and it turned out that the cat was completely shot. Replaced the existing Mazda coils with D585's, fitted new leads and put on a second-hand OEM cat. Engine light kept coming on and off and was reassured that it was a sensitive O2 sensor. Took the car in for recall work to the local Mazda dealership and asked them to look at the warning light issue and they said that the cat was completely destroyed – had only had on the car for about a 1,000 miles. They cited the issue as being with the coils as there wasn't enough fuel being burned in the engine and fuel was getting thrown down into the exhaust system that was then getting hot and eventually destroyed the materials inside the catalytic converter. As I didn't want to pay the £2,500 the dealership wanted to put everything right, I took it to another rotary specialist closer to where I live, who concurred with the diagnosis and was able to demonstrate to me while I waited the incredibly weak spark that was being produced by the D585s. Had proper Mazda coils fitted that the specialist insulated, new Magnecor leads and another second hand OEM cat. When I then drove the car again, I was utterly astounded – it was so much more drivable with more low-end power. It has really transformed the car and increased my enjoyment of it. Sadly that's come at a cost of over £1200 and it's basically all down to the shocking quality of the D585 coils, which I really regret having bought. I would never put them in my car again and strongly advise others to steer clear - not only did they reduce the performance of my car, they also caused damage that was expensive to put right. Has anyone else had similarly poor experiences with D585 coils?
-
- Former Member
- Posts: 4726
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:14 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Velocity Red
- Location: Leicestershire
- Has thanked: 265 times
- Been thanked: 359 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
They can last for a long time but equally some variations of them last a disappointingly short time, less than 10,000 miles sometimes unfortunately.
-= Rotormelon Money Pit Build of Tasteless Questionable Bodgery =-
Experimelon 183whp rebuild | Rotary Revs D585s | PZ Suspension | Hawk & Yellowstuff pads | Extra steering lock | Custom exhaust | Added rearward flames of glory | Unnecessarily repurposed ball gags-= Clicky click for build thread =-
-
- Former Member
- Posts: 1968
- Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:47 pm
- Location: south east London
- Has thanked: 38 times
- Been thanked: 116 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
I like the oem coils this is the reason I bought my coils leads and plugs from Clive.
He import from Japan and you know you get oem stuff some stuff cost a bit more with him but you are guaranteed you get oem quality.
I wound not budget on ignition brakes and tyres.
Other stuff you can go with aftermarket stuff
He import from Japan and you know you get oem stuff some stuff cost a bit more with him but you are guaranteed you get oem quality.
I wound not budget on ignition brakes and tyres.
Other stuff you can go with aftermarket stuff
LEXUS LS430 4.3 v8 family car
Done exhaust and work wheels
Mx5 nd soul red Mike daily and work horse
Jessy’s Jaguar xkr 4.2 supercharged for fun family days
Done exhaust and work wheels
Mx5 nd soul red Mike daily and work horse
Jessy’s Jaguar xkr 4.2 supercharged for fun family days
-
- Spin Doctor
- Posts: 32537
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Lightning Yellow
- Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
- Has thanked: 444 times
- Been thanked: 2080 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
There's a huge variation in the quality of D585 coils, from the real ACDelco factory products to Chinese knock-offs that wholesale for $3 each, and everything in between.
Sellers that say they have "a x-year warranty" doesn't mean anything if it's just a con to get you to buy from them.
The wiring loom adapters (short cables with connectors on each end) are also a weak link in some kits, so the coils don't stand a chance.
Even when fitting, if you don't make a good job of the additional earth connection then you're going to be in trouble down the line.
Quality HT leads come with caps that can be such a firm fit over the spark plugs that it's not obvious when they're not pushed on far enough to actually clip onto the end of the plug, and don't make a good electrical connection. I've seen this too many times to count, with both D585s and good leads on OEM coils.
Sellers that say they have "a x-year warranty" doesn't mean anything if it's just a con to get you to buy from them.
The wiring loom adapters (short cables with connectors on each end) are also a weak link in some kits, so the coils don't stand a chance.
Even when fitting, if you don't make a good job of the additional earth connection then you're going to be in trouble down the line.
Quality HT leads come with caps that can be such a firm fit over the spark plugs that it's not obvious when they're not pushed on far enough to actually clip onto the end of the plug, and don't make a good electrical connection. I've seen this too many times to count, with both D585s and good leads on OEM coils.
-
- Former Member
- Posts: 5849
- Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:26 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Custom
- Location: West Sussex
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 367 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
D585 is a catch-all for a huge variety of LS1 coils of various qualities. You can buy very cheap ones for a few pounds, or very expensive ones. Mine have been great on my race engine that spends most of its time between 7,000rpm and 10,000rpm. It's just like the OEM style coils, you get what you pay for.
It does seem that some people have been making profit by selling cheap D585 coils for premium money. If that's the case then it's a huge shame.
The best way to be safe is to buy from trusted places. Mazda OEM c-spec coils from MRP are one option. And RRP's coils are another great option. I'd only buy D585 if I knew for certain, and trusted, the actual manufacturer of the coils.
It does seem that some people have been making profit by selling cheap D585 coils for premium money. If that's the case then it's a huge shame.
The best way to be safe is to buy from trusted places. Mazda OEM c-spec coils from MRP are one option. And RRP's coils are another great option. I'd only buy D585 if I knew for certain, and trusted, the actual manufacturer of the coils.
- These users thanked the author PeteH for the post:
- mrspiller (Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:34 pm)
-
- Committee Member
- Posts: 1033
- Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:36 pm
- RX-8: Kuro
- Colour: Sparkling Black
- Location: Derby
- Has thanked: 263 times
- Been thanked: 28 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
I was lucky I swapped out my old coils for RRP Mk2's, before too much harm was done. As well as much better low end pull, I also go 10% better MPG and a faster start. So you should get those benefits too. So like everyone says, they are critical.
Sparkling Black Kuro SN# 400/500. PZ suspension, Mini-mapped, EBC Red Stuff fronts disks, Custom Oil Lines, Varta E27 battery. Blacked alloys, K&C air filter, RRP Mk2 Coils and MSD Leads, Krown rustproofed.
Events Coordinator
Events Coordinator
-
- Former Member
- Posts: 10000
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:48 pm
- Location: Fantasy land
- Has thanked: 93 times
- Been thanked: 165 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
When we bought our R3 I was going to replace the coils as a matter of course to ensure the ignition system was in pristine condition.
I pondered what to go for and considered D585’s as well as other options. In the end I went for OEM spec C from MRP. I have been happy with this choice and feel confident that they won’t let us down.
My tack car has BHR 585 style coils, I’m not sure of the mileage on them or the history as there was some confusion (on my behalf) during the various builds so I am not 100% sure they are the ones I originally purchased.
I have now purchased some RRP MK2 to give me total confidence in the ignition and remove the slight doubt in my mind of the current set ups history.
If it has not been for this confusion I would have been happy to stick with them as they have been faultless.
One of the most important things for anybody buying an RX8 is to make sure they have decent coils from a reputable supplier.
I pondered what to go for and considered D585’s as well as other options. In the end I went for OEM spec C from MRP. I have been happy with this choice and feel confident that they won’t let us down.
My tack car has BHR 585 style coils, I’m not sure of the mileage on them or the history as there was some confusion (on my behalf) during the various builds so I am not 100% sure they are the ones I originally purchased.
I have now purchased some RRP MK2 to give me total confidence in the ignition and remove the slight doubt in my mind of the current set ups history.
If it has not been for this confusion I would have been happy to stick with them as they have been faultless.
One of the most important things for anybody buying an RX8 is to make sure they have decent coils from a reputable supplier.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence " Carl Sagan.
-
- Former Member
- Posts: 3387
- Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:38 pm
- RX-8: R3
- Colour: Sparkling Black
- Location: Colchester, Essex
- Has thanked: 691 times
- Been thanked: 558 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
Who was the dealer's recommended rotary specialist that originally fitted the D585s that failed?
(First time I've heard of a dealer recommending going to a rotary specialist before. Do you mean general car dealer, or Mazda dealer? )
And was it made clear to you which D585 coils they were? Did you ask?
But yes, in a sense you're right. The urban myth that D585s are an upgrade and a reliable one is just that. It's more nuanced as has been explained above.
(First time I've heard of a dealer recommending going to a rotary specialist before. Do you mean general car dealer, or Mazda dealer? )
And was it made clear to you which D585 coils they were? Did you ask?
But yes, in a sense you're right. The urban myth that D585s are an upgrade and a reliable one is just that. It's more nuanced as has been explained above.
-
- Former Member
- Posts: 5843
- Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:40 pm
- RX-8: R3
- Colour: Sparkling Black
- Location: East Coast - Lincolnshire
- Has thanked: 101 times
- Been thanked: 83 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
I fitted D585's from RR over 5 years ago and did 55k on them .. faultless .. sometimes, as stated luck of the draw
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 8003
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:11 pm
- RX-8: 40th Anniversary
- Colour: Crystal White
- Location: poole dorset
- Has thanked: 741 times
- Been thanked: 282 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
Mine are 585's from rr on the car when I bought it so about 5 years as well
Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
Hayward's Street/bridgeported rebuild,595's,Tein coilovers edfc Racingbeat rear anti roll bar oil pres oil temp gauge pod's,lockwood front rear grills,Tinted wind ws folding tow hook's,595s,connect2 ,at long last sohn and ap50 tank instaled ,revi ram air duct already fitted ! calipers painted,diff oil changed .
just oil lines to fit at some stage ( had them a while too)
180 of 400
just oil lines to fit at some stage ( had them a while too)
180 of 400
-
- Events Team Member
- Posts: 12589
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:14 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Titanium Grey
- Location: Colchester
- Has thanked: 507 times
- Been thanked: 451 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
Correct me if im wrong please, but I seem to recall RR changed the supplier of their coils at some stage? Is it possible the original supplier's coils were more reliable than the later one?
- These users thanked the author casey for the post:
- ChrisHolmes (Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:03 pm)
Essex Rotary Full Bridgeport
Seibon Carbon Fibre Bonnet, "Racing Brake" front calipers, Racing Beat (RB) ARB's F&R, RB REVI intake, full RB Stainless Steel Exhaust & Mani, 20mm Eibach spacers, KOYO Ali Rad, Lightened Fly, Tein MonoFlex coilovers & strut brace, Axial short-shifter, BHR Coils & Engine Mounts, Greddy Sump
Federal 595RS-R or Rainsport 3
Seibon Carbon Fibre Bonnet, "Racing Brake" front calipers, Racing Beat (RB) ARB's F&R, RB REVI intake, full RB Stainless Steel Exhaust & Mani, 20mm Eibach spacers, KOYO Ali Rad, Lightened Fly, Tein MonoFlex coilovers & strut brace, Axial short-shifter, BHR Coils & Engine Mounts, Greddy Sump
Federal 595RS-R or Rainsport 3
-
- Spin Doctor
- Posts: 32537
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Lightning Yellow
- Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
- Has thanked: 444 times
- Been thanked: 2080 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
Stringing together the stories I've heard over the years, I *think* RR changed suppliers at least twice.
The first because of product issues and the second for commercial reasons.
I understand that they worked with one of their suppliers to address quality/performance issues.
However this is all hearsay.
Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
The first because of product issues and the second for commercial reasons.
I understand that they worked with one of their suppliers to address quality/performance issues.
However this is all hearsay.
Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
-
- Events Team Member
- Posts: 12589
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:14 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Titanium Grey
- Location: Colchester
- Has thanked: 507 times
- Been thanked: 451 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
I think the conclusion is that not all D585's are the same, as has been stated above. There are some quality manufacturers, some cheap Chinese knock-offs and everything in between, all marked as D585 parts.
Essex Rotary Full Bridgeport
Seibon Carbon Fibre Bonnet, "Racing Brake" front calipers, Racing Beat (RB) ARB's F&R, RB REVI intake, full RB Stainless Steel Exhaust & Mani, 20mm Eibach spacers, KOYO Ali Rad, Lightened Fly, Tein MonoFlex coilovers & strut brace, Axial short-shifter, BHR Coils & Engine Mounts, Greddy Sump
Federal 595RS-R or Rainsport 3
Seibon Carbon Fibre Bonnet, "Racing Brake" front calipers, Racing Beat (RB) ARB's F&R, RB REVI intake, full RB Stainless Steel Exhaust & Mani, 20mm Eibach spacers, KOYO Ali Rad, Lightened Fly, Tein MonoFlex coilovers & strut brace, Axial short-shifter, BHR Coils & Engine Mounts, Greddy Sump
Federal 595RS-R or Rainsport 3
-
- Former Member
- Posts: 1307
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 11:16 am
- RX-8: Evolve
- Colour: Copper Red
- Location: Essex/Suffolk
- Has thanked: 30 times
- Been thanked: 27 times
Re: Poor spark from D585 coils destroyed OEM cat
I believe my car has gone through the exact same process as the OP, with Rotary Revs D585 coils (that in hindsight, I purchased them from someone who had used them for not many miles and had a blown engine...and was running a decat).
Fortunately I think having read the stories of others, and checking my CEL immediately, I have a RRP coil kit to go on which I hope to remedy this.
Only shame is the replacement cat doesn't sit as nicely as the OEM cat, so I'll have to play with the welder and swap hangers about.
Fortunately I think having read the stories of others, and checking my CEL immediately, I have a RRP coil kit to go on which I hope to remedy this.
Only shame is the replacement cat doesn't sit as nicely as the OEM cat, so I'll have to play with the welder and swap hangers about.
Copper Red Evolve - viewtopic.php?f=104&t=71400