d585 coils (or similar) to borrow for test

[mzivtins]

No, you've missed what's going on on this case and (edit: gonna wind my neck in). This this isn't the same as the RX7 dip, or the same as what happened recently with LC Rotary (which seems to have fallen on hard times and forgot their obligations in the process).

RR is a relatively (for our community) big business and is still trading as a store and garage and gets the bulk of the rotary business, regardless of a change in ownership on paper. It's been common knowledge that they've been trying to shake the RX8 side for a while and shift to more profitable Mustangs etc. So I hope fobbing off legacy rotary customers isn't just part of that strategy. But it sure looks that way. It's not that they're dying off, regardless of appearances.

If a company wishes to chase a more profitable segment, it can't ditch it's existing commitments (e.g. a lifetime warranty). And if a company buys that company then it inherits all existing contracts, unless the assets only were stripped and purchased which doesn't look possible here.

Hopefully Ben has more info and will enlighten us/put me in my place. Because... ewww... it looks shady.

EDIT 2: Check out the accounts for the past couple of years. They're available online. Suggests as above.

If company 'A' feels that its current offering is not profitable, or in danger of decline, closing the company and winding down services is much more favourable that disappearing overnight.

I don't know why you think the rx8 market isn't in decline, I have that impression purely from the opinion of a few people in the business, the horses mouth... so to speak.

I would do the exact same thing and completely agree in the move. I don't agree with the issues of warrantees though, that stuff is a b1tch.

I've been saying the same thing for years, and the writing is on the wall, all rotary specialists are in decline and drying up. All the best luck to the new guys in the market, but I think these newer rotary specialists are fuelled by passion rather than good market research and sound business model, which is recipe for disaster.

A top engine rebuild with mega porting should cost 5-10k if done correctly, probably 1 in 100 rx8's have that, so there is this horrible rework with warrantees that goes on... having a Bridgeport without improving cooling for example... within 1 year of a few track days that car will be back to the builders for another rebuild. it's simply not worth it to any company to rebuild engines when the owners don't want to part with the cash.

[Dr. FrankenRex]

As a loyal Rotary Revs customer I have to say that is very disappointing...

When I had my race extension build done I was chatting to Ben about things and he did mention that their supplier for the D585 kits were shutting up shop, so I'm presuming that has something to do with the decision but I can't really comment any more than that. I'd be very annoyed if I'd spent good money on their kit only to be refused warranty on it.

As for the above from mzivtins - I agree 100%. There are 2 types of RX8 owners at the current time come rebuild - those who pay peanuts just to fix what went wrong and those who decide that when the time comes they will invest properly in modifying the car or rebuilding 'properly'. The number of the former are much greater than the latter. The latter is the only market that most builders want.

[dac69er]

Spark testers put on, and only T1 had a spark. Swapped coils only for T1 and T2, also L1 with L2 and the spark jumped to only T2. Leads stayed in original positions. Then flipped the trailing and leading coils over on the 1st rotor and still only one coil seems to be firing. Harness and leads seem to be ok.

3 out of 4 coils failed in less than a year and less than 10k miles? Sent an email off to find out what the procedure is for getting this sorted. We'll see how it goes.

ive had a mare with those cheapo d585 harnesses. they appear ok, but the connections are often poor.

i got a replacement harness and it was even worse. spent a good hour tweaking and adjusting all the contacts and all 4 coils fire correctly now.
every now and again i chuck my spark testers on just to make sure they are working correctly still

this may not be the case for your issue, but worth another look as the harness does tend to be the weakest point in these kits IMO.

[LeeW]

Yeah, thanks 69er. I hate the harness too and did think it could have been that before I started troubleshooting. But I only changed the coils and left the HT leads and harness the same everytime and the fault always moved as expected. It could be the harness at fault, but would be a terrible red herring if so.

[13Black]

The leading coils don't spark when turning on the starter, at least for the first few seconds.

Pretty sure I've said this before

TRAILING coils Dave, TRAILING

[warpc0il]

[warpc0il]

We need the rx9 to land, that will either be the nail in the coffin for the rx8 or its revival... sort of like a r34 vs r35 story if you get me?

https://translate.google.co.uk/translat ... 2F17303306

[mzivtins]

Damn, reading that and all the other progress stuff they have... this may be the best true Japanese sports car of modern times, 400ps target is awesome, all Japanese (no bmw numb crap) and a model it seems the fans can be proud of! (not like the r35 vs r34 or the new nsx vs old)

Obviously spells a bit of doom for the 8 and partially 7 being a true to heart successor, if it ticks all the rotary boxes and improves reliability I don't see why any rotary enthusiast wouldn't want one!

[New Duke]

Because it'll still be years off and even if it does get past prototype stage and goes on sale it'll cost £40k+ new. It's not got the same target market as the RX8.

Our cheapo secondhand enthusiast community won't really be affected until about a decade after it launches (if it ever does).

[casey]

I think a mod should move this exciting new news about an RX-9 to a more appropriate topic/thread. We have one or two existing ones somewhere.

I'm not getting too excited yet, as we've had so many false dawns over the years, but it's encouraging to hear work on an RX-9 is still taking place, even if "unofficial".

[SprintRX8]

I have a set of original RX8 coils should you wish to try these.
I’m in Horsham area on Saturday.

The D585 on on my RX8 I could swap these over if you do need D585s.

[GreySilver Beast]

A New Mazda Rotary goes on sale sometime next year

I might next drive it

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[New Duke]

A New Mazda Rotary goes on sale sometime next year

I might next drive it

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

But will that be the 2 door performance RX9 Nigel, or a hybrid sedan/SUV using a rotary as a range extender? Personally I'm excited for a new rotary, but only in a sports car.

[GreySilver Beast]

The New Mazda 3 will have a EV out next year using the Rotary Engine as an Extender

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[AndyBrad]

so whats happening with all the rotary revs coils

[jenkiadr]

Well, based on my experience, the claims being made about the D585 coils are entirely misleading and, in my opinion, amount to false advertising. I had them fitted last year in my 40th anniversary to replace OEM Mazda coils and within 1,000 miles they'd completely destroyed the catalytic converter and the performance of the car. Had OEM coils that a different specialist to the one who fitted the D585 coils then insulated and the car has been utterly transformed in terms of drivability and performance. I wouldn't put D585's back on my car even if I was given them for free. From my perspective they are a con.

[warpc0il]

viewtopic.php?p=1232469#p1232469

[SprintRX8]

Well, based on my experience, the claims being made about the D585 coils are entirely misleading and, in my opinion, amount to false advertising. I had them fitted last year in my 40th anniversary to replace OEM Mazda coils and within 1,000 miles they'd completely destroyed the catalytic converter and the performance of the car. Had OEM coils that a different specialist to the one who fitted the D585 coils then insulated and the car has been utterly transformed in terms of drivability and performance. I wouldn't put D585's back on my car even if I was given them for free. From my perspective they are a con.

Why did you change your coils.
Are you sure your original coils didn’t start the catalytic fault and the D585 finished them off.

Where did you get them from new or used.
Do D585s not have to have the dwell altered?.

[LeeW]

I have a set of original RX8 coils should you wish to try these.
I’m in Horsham area on Saturday.

The D585 on on my RX8 I could swap these over if you do need D585s.

Thanks for the offer mate, I've already started another process.

so whats happening with all the rotary revs coils

Will let you know when it's all dealt with.

[sKenDread]

I thought I'd chime in on this one. I too am a bit disappointed to find my RR coils no longer have a warranty.
When I joined the club I was pretty wary of doing the old school tricks on these cars.
One being coil swapping. Not called an upgrade for our reasons to swap out a Mazda coil to a V8 coil were purely price based not performance. RX7 S4/5/6 coils would go for $450 a pop. And at that price may aswell have looked at MSD instead.
So with the advice from the big dragster boys at home we went big block V8 coils as they were less than 1/4 of the price or more.
I am disheartened to find that this warranty is no longer honoured but we must move along. But for you Lee I sincerely hope you get sorted, a year is not acceptable in my opinion for the price paid.
The fact I've got a few years out of these already gives me a bit of piece of mind that they have done thier job.
My suspicion was that RR were just using good old V8 coils and that's not bad really as the warranty gave peace of mind. But coils can eventually give up when thrashed. We all know that coils are not all the same as so their quality wouldn't be either. And it seems more than likely more and more unreliable coils are available. So it's a bugger to filter through the BS to find a good set sold by who ever.
So for me my thoughts on coils are
1. Do it again and source from a reputable company
2. Go back to old school and take the cheap route which also becomes a pain in the ass being paranoid
3. Revert back to OEM with regular maintenance costs

[mi60o0]

I thought I'd chime in on this one. I too am a bit disappointed to find my RR coils no longer have a warranty.
When I joined the club I was pretty wary of doing the old school tricks on these cars.
One being coil swapping. Not called an upgrade for our reasons to swap out a Mazda coil to a V8 coil were purely price based not performance. RX7 S4/5/6 coils would go for $450 a pop. And at that price may aswell have looked at MSD instead.
So with the advice from the big dragster boys at home we went big block V8 coils as they were less than 1/4 of the price or more.
I am disheartened to find that this warranty is no longer honoured but we must move along. But for you Lee I sincerely hope you get sorted, a year is not acceptable in my opinion for the price paid.
The fact I've got a few years out of these already gives me a bit of piece of mind that they have done thier job.
My suspicion was that RR were just using good old V8 coils and that's not bad really as the warranty gave peace of mind. But coils can eventually give up when thrashed. We all know that coils are not all the same as so their quality wouldn't be either. And it seems more than likely more and more unreliable coils are available. So it's a bugger to filter through the BS to find a good set sold by who ever.
So for me my thoughts on coils are
1. Do it again and source from a reputable company
2. Go back to old school and take the cheap route which also becomes a pain in the ass being paranoid
3. Revert back to OEM with regular maintenance costs

Go oem and get genuine from Clive.
40 to 50k miles I don't think people put 50k in a rotary for a year.

[New Duke]

If you need new coils I'd wipe option 2 off that list. You know the dangers of cheap coils and it's just not worth the risk or worry.

I think the two options (if new coils are needed) should really be:
1. By RRP coils
2. Buy OEM

I think were was an expectation that because some coils had a lifetime warranty that meant they would last a lifetime. Be that down to mistaken customer belief or false advertising I dunno. But I do think it's perfectly reasonable to replace ignition coils every 30k+ miles, given the job they have to do. On that basis Mazda Rev C coils get an unfair wrap, as if they're somehow an expensive liability. Mazda just don't make any unsubstantiated advertising claims about them. Nobody has any comprehensive data on how many Rev C coils fail and at what mileage relative to a specific flavour of D585s. So it's all just assumption based on limited facts or internet buzz.

When it comes to products with lifetime warranties it's just a matter of how much you trust them. Or in our case how much you trust a garage business that has somebody fabricate products to their spec; either to honour the warranty (which customers should fight against when companies screw them) or not to go out of business. Both of which are big gambles in the scheme of things.

I'm about to replace perfectly good Rev C coils with some new RRP ones. Which is admittedly a luxury. But I'm curious about the hype. I hope that RRP will be in business forever and honour warranties... but yeah of course there's an inherent risk down the line which I've accepted should one or more fail*.

*Carl recently shared that none have failed yet. Just to give RRP fair credit while I'm being all pessimistic.

[Ollie]

Good OEM Rev Cs or RRP are definitely the way to go. I think Carl has it down to a tee so far! Im sure once one or more does fail he will let us know about it! Obviously even if 1 out of X fails... That'd still be seen as a good thing. Since X is obviously going to be bigger than 1. I see the life time warranty on the RRPs as a bonus more than a "will make the coils last forever because reasons." but thats how I view most warranties.

Also generally when a company goes have a big warranty they tend to have faith in their product lasting at least that long. And if it doesn't then it's probably going to be a low number. Compared to a company that offers a 1 year warranty for a similar product where they have a high return rate within that 1 year or just outwidth of it.

[sKenDread]

Indeed guys, and thanks for the input.
For those with limited experience, I would certainly point them towards OEM rev C or RRP. At the price without discount almost the same price as OEM, and they both last 20-40k they both work out financially equal. So any longer time on the RPP would be added bonus

[AndyBrad]

my concern is that rr have been supplying sub standard coils by the fact that they have been pointing us to the cheap ebay ones as a replacement.