d585 coils (or similar) to borrow for test

[LeeW]

RX8 died weeks and weeks ago now but haven't had chance to look into it properly since. I'm pretty sure that one or more of my RR coils have failed but before going through the process, it would be nice to just quickly swap them out to see. I've had ECU adjustments so can only be d585 style coils.

Does anybody in the south east (East Sussex, Kent area) have 1 or a set I could borrow?

[warpc0il]

You could try swapping the coil units around, leading for trailing, and see what difference it makes.



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[13Black]

Just stick some spark testers on it for £10

[LeeW]

Spark testers put on, and only T1 had a spark. Swapped coils only for T1 and T2, also L1 with L2 and the spark jumped to only T2. Leads stayed in original positions. Then flipped the trailing and leading coils over on the 1st rotor and still only one coil seems to be firing. Harness and leads seem to be ok.

3 out of 4 coils failed in less than a year and less than 10k miles? Sent an email off to find out what the procedure is for getting this sorted. We'll see how it goes.

[warpc0il]

The leading coils don't spark when turning on the starter, at least for the first few seconds.

[LeeW]

The engine was running. Albeit with a very rough idle, as you can imagine, with only 1 plug firing.

But as explained I also swapped the leading and trailing over.

[goodeggbob]

are you still looking to borrow a set,i have a varied selection of known genuines here if you need them.

[warpc0il]

A set of original Mazda coils could be used for a quick substitution diagnosis test, however, as the OP has D585's today, this means that the Mazda coils would have to come with a set of known good HT leads, as they're different, and the test should only be very short, since the PCM dwell mapping will soon burn-out the original coils.

Hence the specific request.

[LeeW]

are you still looking to borrow a set,i have a varied selection of known genuines here if you need them.

Yeah, thanks Bob. only d585s were the reasons above. Only because I didn't want to go though the bore of having to undo the bracket bit by bit to individually swap them over to fault find. I was just being lazy.

Anyway, as I've been living under a rotary rock for the last few months, I've only just found out that RR are no longer fulfilling their lifetime warranty.

So, yet another sour taste in the mouth. The joys of RX8 ownership, I guess.

[New Duke]

Anyway, as I've been living under a rotary rock for the last few months, I've only just found out that RR are no longer fulfilling their lifetime warranty.

Whaaaaaat? They won't fulfil the warranty promise to the original buyer (you)? Or are these ones a second hand set you inherited?

If they have changed the lifetime promise then that's been a bit hush hush.

[LeeW]

I bought them direct from the shop less than a year ago. They aren't honouring warranties. I could go in to more details but as I'm pretty annoyed right now it probably isn't the best time.

[New Duke]

Wow. I'm sorry to hear that. A fresh 'FYI' thread on it (and what they said to you) might be handy when it's less raw. I'd be very unhappy too. It certainly wasn't common knowledge as far as I knew.

[New Duke]

This is new news to me.
Their website was offering " lifetime warranty " back in February
https://web.archive.org/web/20190227123 ... n-uprating
and still does today
http://rotaryrevs.com/garage/services/i ... -uprating/
though the page is harder to find, since they restructured the navigation

[LeeW]

Email reply from RR:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Lee,

I hope you are well and I’m sorry you had issues with your Rotary Revs ignition coil kit.

Unfortunately the news from this end is not great. Since the takeover of Rotary Revs ltd by Motorsport and Performance ltd the Rotary Revs ignition coil kits have been discontinued and the new company does not support the kits.

We did have an amount of stock available which we used to honour warranties but that stock ran out a month or so ago and so the kits are no longer supported and the business that sold them no longer exists.

The rotary revs and Petit racing brands have both become subsidiaries of the MAP trading company.

Since the stock ran out we have been sending the few people enquiring to ebay where they can purchase D585 ignition coils for around £70 for 8 that will get their kits back up and running. See here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8x-D585-UF-2 ... SwyOVcymvo

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The RR store (where I bought the coils from) is still a trading company, the garage business is now dormant. Both these companies and MAP all have the same director and run out of the same place. So there's clearly some dodging going on here. But, as per their hopes, I really don't know if I can be bothered to pursue. I don't like being the person to start a conversation based on bad news but I guess its better than people know now that things aren't usually what they seem.

[New Duke]

I'm going to temper my language given the recent LC Rotary debacle showed how blinkered some folks here are by 'loyalty'.

Yeah in short your instincts are right, they are shafting you. Them being bought doesn't change anything, the buying company inherits their obligations. I have some experience in the matter

I'm also a bit concerned about those coils they suggested you buy. Are they pointing people to eBay crappies or are they the ones they've always been selling just rebranded under a huge markup?

Probably not worth you fighting it for that money. An hour with a decent lawyer will cost more. (Which they're probably counting on) But you have been wronged and their excuse doesn't hold water. You could do a small claims court form if you can spare the time, it's cheap to do.

Thanks for letting us know though. RR now off my (now very short) vendor list.

[Dazza44]

And there seem to be more and more failings of the RR coils so there going to many more unhappy customers.

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[casey]

Not sure what's happening with these businesses. Companies House shows Rotary Revs as "Dormant" from 31 July 2019:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history

..and Motorsport and Performance Ltd as "Dissolved" (via a compulsory strike off notice) on 7 Feb 2017

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09759497

MAP is operating as a non-limited enterprise?

Rotary Revs Store Ltd is still a trading entity, although the significance of a charge over the business by HSBC Bank is not clear to me;

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08743718

[mzivtins]

I'm going to temper my language given the recent LC Rotary debacle showed how blinkered some folks here are by 'loyalty'.

Yeah in short your instincts are right, they are shafting you. Them being bought doesn't change anything, the buying company inherits their obligations. I have some experience in the matter

I'm also a bit concerned about those coils they suggested you buy. Are they pointing people to eBay crappies or are they the ones they've always been selling just rebranded under a huge markup?

Probably not worth you fighting it for that money. An hour with a decent lawyer will cost more. (Which they're probably counting on) But you have been wronged and their excuse doesn't hold water. You could do a small claims court form if you can spare the time, it's cheap to do.

Thanks for letting us know though. RR now off my (now very short) vendor list.

I think these coil packs were bespoke in terms of supply and packaging together with the magnecore leads. That supply relationship might not make sense with the new company, its super sh*t for the consumer, but in the rx8 market, its the only way to survive. Ryan rotary performance (not the company in question above) will be one of the last rx8 only specialist within the next 24months I bet you.

A lot worse is to come... unless of course you go direct with manufacturer or parts house like mazda or re-amemiya for example

[mzivtins]

Not sure what's happening with these businesses. Companies House shows Rotary Revs as "Dormant" from 31 July 2019:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history

..and Motorsport and Performance Ltd as "Dissolved" (via a compulsory strike off notice) on 7 Feb 2017

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09759497

MAP is operating as a non-limited enterprise?

Rotary Revs Store Ltd is still a trading entity, although the significance of a charge over the business by HSBC Bank is not clear to me;

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08743718

I think the 7 market went through a smilar phase when no one wanted them, better now as they are regarded as one of the finest cars ever, so prices will go up over time. I think the market for rx8's is disappearing fast, not much activity and not a lot of worth in the chassis itself (despite being so perfect) maybe In a few years it might pick up!

We need the rx9 to land, that will either be the nail in the coffin for the rx8 or its revival... sort of like a r34 vs r35 story if you get me?

[mzivtins]

I don't mean to go on, but this is why the rx8 market is in such a poor state...

The direct competition for rx8's are:
350z
s2000
gt86(maybe, different era)

Now across all of those cars the R3 in top trumps mode, its better in all ways, handling, speed and features (that matter, carbon driveshaft, amazing gearbox, lightweight, RWD balanced chassis) I think we can all agree on that?

Cut a long story short, the Rx8 is a £10,000 to £15,000 car that is worth £2000-£5000 in this country AT BEST!

This country has a terrible car culture since the rampant popularity of German manufacturers, the reputation of the RX8 is the issue of the price being so low.

So we get cheap amazing cars cool! No not really... who has the money to buy £4000 wheels for a £2000 car? no one... but on a £15,000 car, the prices of higher quality parts seems reasonable.

In Japan the rx8 will sell for £10k-£15k and will hold that value for years to come, they have a car culture that isn't reserved for us cultists only, they understand the romance of sports cars unlike the majority of British people do with their numb handling German cars.

Companies are going to sh*t because theres nothing left to support anymore, no one wants to spend 100% of the value of the car to keep it running, who the fk would?

[New Duke]

No, you've missed what's going on on this case and (edit: gonna wind my neck in). This this isn't the same as the RX7 dip, or the same as what happened recently with LC Rotary (which seems to have fallen on hard times and forgot their obligations in the process).

RR is a relatively (for our community) big business and is still trading as a store and garage and gets the bulk of the rotary business, regardless of a change in ownership on paper. It's been common knowledge that they've been trying to shake the RX8 side for a while and shift to more profitable Mustangs etc. So I hope fobbing off legacy rotary customers isn't just part of that strategy. But it sure looks that way. It's not that they're dying off, regardless of appearances.

If a company wishes to chase a more profitable segment, it can't ditch it's existing commitments (e.g. a lifetime warranty). And if a company buys that company then it inherits all existing contracts, unless the assets only were stripped and purchased which doesn't look possible here.

Hopefully Ben has more info and will enlighten us/put me in my place. Because... ewww... it looks shady.

EDIT 2: Check out the accounts for the past couple of years. They're available online. Suggests as above.

[MightyCondor]

If they can't replace the coils with replacement parts, then shouldn't they be offering refunds instead?

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[LeeW]

If they can't replace the coils with replacement parts, then shouldn't they be offering refunds instead?

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This would be my understanding too.

[warpc0il]

Specific Coil Warranty - from current page on website
http://rotaryrevs.com/garage/services/i ... -uprating/
Quoted here in case it disappears...

Ignition Uprating

It’s well known that the OEM Mazda ignition system is unreliable and prone to failure. What people often don’t realise is that in failing, the parts can (and often do) cause damage to other components such as the catalytic convertor and in more extreme cases the RX-8 engine itself.

The deterioration of coils over time manifests itself in numerous ways, from worsening fuel economy, waning performance, a strong smell of petrol coming from the exhaust and poor idle, ultimately leaving you broken down at the side of the road. So rather than replacing the Mazda parts with more of the same, it makes sense to upgrade your ignition.
Introducing The
Rotary Revs D585 Ignition Coil Kit

The Rotary Revs Ignition Kit offers longer lasting durability and increased reliability as well as gains in performance and fuel economy too. In fact, according to our many happy customers, our ignition kit gives real-world noticeable benefits such as better throttle response, improved low to mid-range power and makes for a healthier engine and altogether smoother ride.

We have designed and developed our own bespoke ignition kit that combats the issues which plague the Mazda components. Built around the LS2 D585 ignition coil design our kit offers a more potent ignition spark for a more complete combustion.

The Rotary Revs D585 Ignition Kit comes pre-built with an all new set of Magnecor ignition leads, bracket in an option of colours and wiring loom adaptor as well as the Ignition coils themselves.

We are so completely confident in this upgrade kit that we offer a lifetime warranty on it.

Should you ever have any issues with the kit you need only send it back to us for a diagnostic and if a fault is found with any part we will fix it and return the kit to you free of charge along with the cost of postage to us*.

The full kit with full warranty costs just £379.99 inc VAT
Add in Spark Plugs for only £79.99

Note: To validate any warranty claim we must have the opportunity to inspect and test the ignition kit ourselves.

Limited Warranty page
http://rotaryrevs.com/garage/terms/limited-warranty/

Limited Warranty

RotaryRevs Store Ltd warrants to the original end user customer (*customer*) unless otherwise specified. This limited warranty covers work carried out in the workshop or any products manufactured by Rotary Revs Store Ltd. The limited warranties cover products and services to be free from defects in workmanship or material for one year from the invoice shipment date or date of collection from Rotary Revs facility. This limited warranty is part of and incorporated into the Rotary Revs Terms of Sale.

This limited warranty does not apply to any products sold by Rotary Revs branded by any other manufacturer or retailer. Further, this limited warranty does not apply to any software or to any set-up, training, calibration or consulting services.

The above limited warranty does not apply to any Product or Product component which has been (a) modified or altered outside original factory specifications, (b) subjected to improper or unauthorized installation, maintenance, adjustment, disassembly or attempted repair; neglect, damage, misuse, or accident, (c) used in other than those specific applications recommended by rotary revs, and/or Product/Service Bulletins or other similar post-sale documents in effect on Product shipment, or (d) sold or resold in violation of UK export regulations.

Customer agrees to notify Rotary Revs Warranty Department, at the below address, promptly upon discovery of a suspected warranted defect. Rotary Revs will, in its sole discretion, determine whether the entire Product must be returned or whether only affected, allegedly defective components, (as determined by Rotary Revs) of the Product may be returned. If Rotary Revs determines that only components are to be returned, Customer is responsible for, and bears all risk associated with, proper removal of such component(s) from the Product. Customer will not return any Product or component(s) without first contacting rotary revs and gaining permission. After gaining authorisation for the return Customer is responsible for shipment, at Customer expense and risk, of the allegedly defective Product or component(s) freight prepaid insured and properly packed to:

Rotary Revs, unit 7 smithies mill, Smithies Moor Lane, Birstal, West Yorkshire, WF17 8NS

With a copy of the Product purchase invoice showing the date of Product shipment from Rotary Revs.

Rotary Revs sole obligation under this limited warranty, and Customer’s sole remedy, is to repair or replace (at Rotary Revs option) any Product, or component(s) which Rotary Revs, in its sole determination, deems to be defective and to return the repaired or replaced Product or component(s) to Customer. Customer is responsible for all costs, expense and risk arising from, or associated with removal, installation, testing, calibration, insurance, and transportation of any Product or component(s) repaired or replaced under this limited warranty. Any repaired or replaced Product or component(s) will, upon Customer’s receipt, be covered by this limited warranty for the remaining period of the original pre determined warranty period. Rotary Revs may, at its sole option, and in lieu of repair or replacement, refund to the Customer the original purchase price for the returned defective Product. THE ABOVE IS THE ENTIRE WARRANTY AND ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS, STATUTORY, OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, WARRANTIES OF FITNESS, MERCHANTABILITY, DESIGN OR COURSE OF DEALING ARE HEREBY DISCLAIMED.
Liability

Rotary Revs total cumulative liability for actions relating to these terms or the products will be limited to the net purchase price of the products which are the subject of the controversy. In no event will Rotary Revs, its employees, officers or agents, be liable for any lost profits, lost data, goodwill or opportunity or any consequential, incidental or special damages however arising.
Complete Agreement

The foregoing terms and conditions and product warranties are the entire agreement and supersede all other agreements or understandings. These terms and conditions cannot be changed or amended except by written document specifically titled “Terms of Sale – Amendment” and signed by the Managing Director of RotaryRevs Store Ltd.

I've highlighted the text in Red

[New Duke]

Maybe you just got the temp worker Lee who was helping out on Customer Services for the day and hadn't completed their training...

Emailing them the above from Warpc0il might help set them straight... on their own policy.

'The Rotary Revs Ignition Kit offers longer lasting durability and increased reliability' When's that myth going to be put to bed.