d585 coils (or similar) to borrow for test

[mi60o0]

Worth check coils imho I had car I bought fot breaking down on power was coils.

[Neilparry]

Not just the coils. Plugs and lead’s need to be tested before you go hunting down coils.


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[LeeW]

Get spark testers as they're cheap and easy to stick in-between your plugs and leads. It'll quickly show you if you've got anything ignition related backwards from the plugs under idle. But your symptoms are pretty open ended at the moment i'd say and my symptoms were nothing like what you're describing. Mine when from running normally to a huge misfire and rough running pretty much instantly.

[New Duke]

Good to see you back Bex, albeit with an issue.

As has been said best get some spark testers on it, you'll fine them cheap on eBay.

Be sure to post up you're findings in a new thread and I'm sure it'll get figured out.

[Bex]

Good to see you back Bex, albeit with an issue.

As has been said best get some spark testers on it, you'll fine them cheap on eBay.

Be sure to post up you're findings in a new thread and I'm sure it'll get figured out.

I didn't really go away. my membership ran out and haven't really posted much since then but i have been on a few times been following a few car builds and trying to keep up to date with forum news. last year was just really busy year for me and took my time away from the computer so much. hopefully this years not as busy. will definitely post my findings and give them a bit of a DIY test with the spark testers that seems to make more sense to see if there's an indications of an issue before sending them off.

i read through peoples replys after my post, I have kept up to date with servicing and done spark plugs along with that, and have also last weekend changed the spark plugs again so they were new just in case that was an issue and it still behaving the same.

[New Duke]

Good to see you back Bex, albeit with an issue.

As has been said best get some spark testers on it, you'll fine them cheap on eBay.

Be sure to post up you're findings in a new thread and I'm sure it'll get figured out.

I didn't really go away. my membership ran out and haven't really posted much since then but i have been on a few times been following a few car builds and trying to keep up to date with forum news. last year was just really busy year for me and took my time away from the computer so much. hopefully this years not as busy. will definitely post my findings and give them a bit of a DIY test with the spark testers that seems to make more sense to see if there's an indications of an issue before sending them off.

i read through peoples replys after my post, I have kept up to date with servicing and done spark plugs along with that, and have also last weekend changed the spark plugs again so they were new just in case that was an issue and it still behaving the same.

If you haven't already plugged in an OBD reader that might be a good idea too. Just in case there's a fault registered. Most engine related issues seem to trigger some sort of error code. Will keep me fingers crossed it's a simple issue.

[MightyCondor]

Just saw this, and laughed, then remembered this thread.



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[AndyBrad]

when on earth way that posted?

[warpc0il]

2 hours before it was shared here.

RR no long offer D585 replacements and have switched back to OEM coils.

[Neilparry]

From what I recall on a previous thread , they pointed anyone requiring replacement coils to a seller on eBay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362637941422

Which makes you think where the original coils came from ??


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[JamieM]

Does that mean they're no longer honouring their lifetime warranty on the D585s then?

I got this reply from Ben when I emailed them about it recently (despite Ben's post / assurances earlier in this thread):

Unfortunately although the Rotary Revs brand is still very much alive it is now part of Motorsport and Perfomance ltd who discontinued the RRD585 kit. We actually now recommend OEM ignition coils in every case except turbo applications where we would suggest AEM smart coils.

RE the D585's, I tried to keep stock on the shelf for the actual customers that bought them and kept the invoices etc but in the end it was just creating a load of agro with people trying their luck.
We also had no end of issues with people sending kits to us for warranty work, us taking the time to test them only to find that they were fine and the issues were with the cars.

We've had abuse from people that have bought coils second hand off ebay, arguments with people that have D585 coil kits that wern't even the RR ones and god knows what other amounts of trouble ... so in the end we let them drop off altogether and as such the warranty that RR gave them is not upheld by MAP anymore.
If they are something that you would like to maintain then the kits are literally built around AC Delco D585 ignition coils and those can be bought easily enough off the internet.

(emphasis/highlighting by me)

So it seems they no longer honour the warranty full stop.

I'm not too bothered by it personally, and think it's kind of fair enough, so I've not pressed the issue, though a shame and obviously a bit crap for genuine customers.

My D585 kit is an original from one of the very first group buys organised by AdamGaltress back in about 2014/2015 or so, and they're still going relatively strong (I think), so I've had a good 6 years / 35,000 miles use out of them and won't feel particularly hard done by if they do fail. I don't think I'd be able to locate my original invoice now anyway even if I tried (I've moved house 4 times since I bought the coils, through no fault of my own!)

In fairness, my question to them was more along the lines of "if it turns out to be the coils that are the problem", and not "my coils have definitely failed", so that might have influenced the response - I'm about to install some new leads which I suspect will solve my current problem. They were very helpful in helping me source the leads and also very apologetic! I'll still be going back for tuning etc at some point

[New Duke]

From what I recall on a previous thread , they pointed anyone requiring replacement coils to a seller on eBay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362637941422

Which makes you think where the original coils came from ??

Yeah that was earlier in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=80409#p1231162. Which wasn't directly addressed in Ben's rebuttal: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=80409&start=50#p1245115. I wouldn't normally expect companies to disclose their inner workings, but it was a perfect opportunity to correct that rumour.

So it seems they no longer honour the warranty full stop.

I'm not too bothered by it personally, and think it's kind of fair enough, so I've not pressed the issue, though a shame and obviously a bit crap for genuine customers.

Thanks Jamie. Good luck solving your issue. I think that's fair enough if a customer can't find their proof of purchase. I still think RR have been shady at best and shown that their coils were always snake oil. But I'm definitely in the minority. They're staying on my seller blacklist though.

A bit telling that there was any question over identifying which coils RR had sold. Other coil suppliers wisely brand their own.

So all D585s now worth about 10 quid.

[Neilparry]

My thoughts at the time was a company purchasing a large quantity of these and rebranding them with a RR decal made it easy to give a lifetime warranty with such a big markup. If that is as the case of course


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[JamieM]

I think that's fair enough if a customer can't find their proof of purchase.

Yeah, agreed Also covid, economic downturn, brexit, etc. etc.

My original plan was to bring the car to them, so I was kind of hoping they'd be able to recognise their own kit in person as "proof", if that makes sense. Or perhaps they'd have a record of the sale somewhere / I could dig back through my bank statements / pull up old forum posts of the group buy or something. But like I say, I'm not too bothered, and it's totally fair enough!

[New Duke]

And now... in song!

Spoiler:

If it needs context:
D585s are the 'miracle tonic'
RR are the Flim Flam Brothers
and the sceptics are Applejack

[Ryan Rotary Performance]

We also had no end of issues with people sending kits to us for warranty work, us taking the time to test them only to find that they were fine and the issues were with the cars.

I can sympathise with that statement, I too have this quite a lot which is now why I have this set up and 99% of the time the coils are fine;

Coil Tester.jpg

In future I plan to offer a full coil report hooking this up to my oscilloscope to give actual performance data for each coil returned.

[MightyCondor]

I don't think that D585s are snake oil, but it's now known that they're far from bullet proof.

I've had them on 3 cars (2 of which were RR kits) and never had a coil fail. I did have an issue with the harness grounding on the engine on the first set, but that was my fault for an untidy install.

My PZ came with a set of the D969s fitted. I don't know what the true manufacturing origins of these coils are, so hopefully they'll last.

Most aftermarket parts makers will overhype their offerings. It's good marketing and all needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, especially on the RX8 with its limited tuning potential.

It's just funny that RR can do a Facebook post like that having been responsible for flooding the market with their own coils. I know they're just promoting their stock of oem coils, but they could have worded it better. It reads as an admission of failure to anyone who knows the history.

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[PaulAV]

I was experiencing slow starts hot and cold, no misfire, but when cold I was getting some hesitation I'm thing RRP mkii coils that have been on some time, I'm also running magnacore leads, I was thinking this issues may be coil related, so I pulled the coils, cleaned the connector at the harness and at the coil, then opened up the magnacore terminal and used some scotchbrite on the inside of the brass section on the coil as I noticed some small dark marks, put everything back together and start ups are a lot quicker and the hesitation has gone and possible my fuel economy has improved as well. Just a thought ignition system isn't exactly fit and forget

[AndyBrad]

as an owner of some 959's or whatever that i got from rr and they dont carry any branding what so ever i feel slightly agreeved by their statements as i was orignally told by them (and many on here) that running mazda coils would spell trouble and that the only safe way to run an 8 was to have them.

It just goes to show you that a lot of people recycle what others say as fact without much proof.

Still live and learn and all that.

[PaulAV]

I gave my rotary revs coils away, to good egg Bob, I believe he's been letting people use them for fault finding. I never experienced any issues with them, but swapped over to Ryan rotary mkii after putting a different ECU in and losing the mini map.

[Ryan Rotary Performance]

There is an interesting read below regarding Duty Cycle and may go someway to explaining why LS have tyically failed in the past.

viewtopic.php?f=205&t=79271

It will also give you an idea of what you could do to increase the life of your coils should you have LS style coils installed.

[warpc0il]

D585's became a popular alternative to oem coils because;
- the original "A suffix" Mazda coils could fail prematurely.
- replacements from Mazda were expensive, if the car was out-of-warranty.
- every motor factor in the US (which is where this idea came from) stocks D585 coils and they're cheap.
- being so cheap and available, even if they were as unreliable as the original OEM coils, then further replacements weren't an issue.

Somewhere along the line, people got the idea that D585 coils were "a performance upgrade" and "could improve reliability".

They could certainly produce a significant performance improvement when fitted to a car whose original coils were failing, or one (or more) had actually died, but no better than a good set of OEM.

However...
- Mazda made significant improvements with their "B suffix" and further more with their "C-suffix" coils.
- Much of the bad reputation for replacement Mazda coils were due to the market being flooded by fakes, produced in China for $3/unit.
- there are also lots of fake D585 coils being sold.

Today, if I was looking to replace coils because I knew or suspected that those fitted were either reaching end-of-life, or were fakes fitted by a previous owner, then the only options I would consider would be real C suffix Mazda coils from a trusted source, or Ryan Rotary Mk II/III aftermarket coils.

In either case I'd also be replacing the HT leads, as these are the real weak link in the original ignition specification.

[auditt235]

No, you've missed what's going on on this case and (edit: gonna wind my neck in). This this isn't the same as the RX7 dip, or the same as what happened recently with LC Rotary (which seems to have fallen on hard times and forgot their obligations in the process).

RR is a relatively (for our community) big business and is still trading as a store and garage and gets the bulk of the rotary business, regardless of a change in ownership on paper. It's been common knowledge that they've been trying to shake the RX8 side for a while and shift to more profitable Mustangs etc. So I hope fobbing off legacy rotary customers isn't just part of that strategy. But it sure looks that way. It's not that they're dying off, regardless of appearances.

If a company wishes to chase a more profitable segment, it can't ditch it's existing commitments (e.g. a lifetime warranty). And if a company buys that company then it inherits all existing contracts, unless the assets only were stripped and purchased which doesn't look possible here.

Hopefully Ben has more info and will enlighten us/put me in my place. Because... ewww... it looks shady.

EDIT 2: Check out the accounts for the past couple of years. They're available online. Suggests as above.

I've never touched my engine, so I have always wondered whether I should have changed the leads and coils for better ones? Up until it was sorned four years ago, I used to get RR to do all the servicing. What would people recommend now on coils and leads, plus servicing (live just outside Worcester)?

John

[warpc0il]

https://www.ryanrotaryperformance.com/s ... -compliant

[auditt235]

https://www.ryanrotaryperformance.com/s ... -compliant

Wow thanks! I am guessing my 2009 RX has never had either new coils or leads....so I am also guessing they ought to be replaced?

John