d585 coils (or similar) to borrow for test

[sKenDread]

my concern is that rr have been supplying sub standard coils by the fact that they have been pointing us to the cheap ebay ones as a replacement.

Sorry I hope you don't take me as being argumentative.
I wouldn't say they were scamming us. But I haven't looked at any of their previous advertisements.
They may well have been sourcing dirt cheap which in my opinion would be fine as long as when/if those coils failed, they honoured their warranty.
I wouldn't call them sub standard either as the only proof would be to test and compare to something not classed as sub standard.
I do recall somewhere on the page them mentioning cherry picking

[AndyBrad]

I didnt say they were scamming us.

just a business model of.
you car will die if its got knackered coils and we will replace them forever.

they have been sold as a more reliable version than standard coils.

[jenkiadr]

Well, based on my experience, the claims being made about the D585 coils are entirely misleading and, in my opinion, amount to false advertising. I had them fitted last year in my 40th anniversary to replace OEM Mazda coils and within 1,000 miles they'd completely destroyed the catalytic converter and the performance of the car. Had OEM coils that a different specialist to the one who fitted the D585 coils then insulated and the car has been utterly transformed in terms of drivability and performance. I wouldn't put D585's back on my car even if I was given them for free. From my perspective they are a con.

Why did you change your coils.
Are you sure your original coils didn’t start the catalytic fault and the D585 finished them off.

Where did you get them from new or used.
Do D585s not have to have the dwell altered?.

I changed my coils to the D585s because the ones in there when I bought the car hadn’t been changed for some time and a warning light was coming on indicating that there might be a problem with the cat. So when I changed the coils to the D585s, which were recommended and brand new ones supplied by The Performance Shop and fitted by LC Rotary, I also changed the cat to a secondhand OEM one as the original one that came with the car was completely shot (that was another interesting story being threatened by the dealer in the process of asserting my consumer rights!).Then within 1000 miles the D585 coils totally trashed the second cat on the car. The basic problem was that they gave a completely rubbish spark that wasn’t igniting the fuel properly. The second rotary specialist I took the car to demonstrated that to me while I waited – it was very clear. I’m now on my third set of coils on the car (OEM ones now) and third cat within 10 months of ownership! And as I said in my previous post, the driving experience has been completely transformed by the new OEM coils and cat.

[jenkiadr]

Based on my experience, the D585s were not fit for purpose and, given the pricing and ‘warranty’, were held out as being a better quality product than they actually were.

[Nickp47]

Well, based on my experience, the claims being made about the D585 coils are entirely misleading and, in my opinion, amount to false advertising. I had them fitted last year in my 40th anniversary to replace OEM Mazda coils and within 1,000 miles they'd completely destroyed the catalytic converter and the performance of the car. Had OEM coils that a different specialist to the one who fitted the D585 coils then insulated and the car has been utterly transformed in terms of drivability and performance. I wouldn't put D585's back on my car even if I was given them for free. From my perspective they are a con.

Why did you change your coils.
Are you sure your original coils didn’t start the catalytic fault and the D585 finished them off.

Where did you get them from new or used.
Do D585s not have to have the dwell altered?.

I changed my coils to the D585s because the ones in there when I bought the car hadn’t been changed for some time and a warning light was coming on indicating that there might be a problem with the cat. So when I changed the coils to the D585s, which were recommended and brand new ones supplied by The Performance Shop and fitted by LC Rotary, I also changed the cat to a secondhand OEM one as the original one that came with the car was completely shot (that was another interesting story being threatened by the dealer in the process of asserting my consumer rights!).Then within 1000 miles the D585 coils totally trashed the second cat on the car. The basic problem was that they gave a completely rubbish spark that wasn’t igniting the fuel properly. The second rotary specialist I took the car to demonstrated that to me while I waited – it was very clear. I’m now on my third set of coils on the car (OEM ones now) and third cat within 10 months of ownership! And as I said in my previous post, the driving experience has been completely transformed by the new OEM coils and cat.

Would I be right in thinking the dealer is a rotary ‘specialist’ based in Kent?

[jenkiadr]

Yes.

[AndyBrad]

i still want to know what the differene is between the 585 and 585-r ones?

i know that the potting is different colours on mine (same set)

[New Duke]

i still want to know what the differene is between the 585 and 585-r ones?

i know that the potting is different colours on mine (same set)

This is the thread you want to read then Andy: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=63955&hilit=R969

D585-R and D969 were the same thing. Phil Bate did lots of testing on them.

[LeeW]

Just an update for those of you who might want to know what sort of position you’re in regarding purchases from Rotary Revs. Their initial reply is at the beginning of this, now poorly titled, thread.

My reply to that email on 17th September was this:

Thanks for the quick reply.

If replacement parts aren’t available anymore, can i return my kit for a refund please. My contract is with RotaryRevs Store who, as far as i can see, are still trading, so i can’t see why the warranty isn’t applicable?

Regards,

Lee

To which I got this reply:

Hi Lee,

That's fine. It seems that you are right and the company does still exist.

I'll look into it further for you. In the mean time I think it would be worth you getting the kit back to us for the initial diag. Then I'll see what we can do for you from this end.

RotaryRevs store is no longer the trading company since it's take over by MAP. It seems the paperwork for the firm closure is still not completed so I will process this claim for you and sort the details out in the general dealings with the previous firm.

If you could return the parts with your details, return address and warranty paperwork I'll get the kit diagnosed and buy the parts in to repair it once we have gotten to the bottom of the problem.

Cheers



I sent the kit back and it was signed for by RR on the 12th October. I haven’t had any correspondence since the email above and I asked for an update a week ago and aren’t getting responses now.


Doesn’t look good, which i don’t think is a surprise to anyone.

I’m assuming my coils will never be seen again, but will update if anything happens. Good luck all other customers.

[AndyBrad]

i doubt they will ever be seen again just they are very busy building engines and not great / interested in the small stuff imo

[New Duke]

Fingers crossed they replace your kit with decent coils Lee, and not the £20 engine killers they recommended instead.

So much wrong in their response tho, I don't have time to address it all. But the headline takeaway for anyone here should be that RR have no idea how the law applies to their business (or at best are being wilfully difficult). Which is worrying in itself and means you'll always be talking to a brick wall. What they should be doing is referring existing warranty claims to MAP. But it's easier for them just to pull this face:

RR Warranty Policy.jpg

Have fun with those engine warranties guys when they decide to sell on the rebuild department...

[Azimuth]

That response is a little more promising. Lets hope they do the right thing eventually.

It leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth, given the attitude I and others have received on this forum, simply for talking about looking into alternative D585 style coils.

I should mention that BHR have supplied Spectra Industries C-593s as warranty replacement coils. They are cheap, relatively, but only available in the US (and eBay) so make of that what you will. I tried using original General Motors D-585s, but they blew up pretty quickly. I've since learned that GM have two manufacturing plants, USA and Mexico. For some weird reason people seem to think the US made coils are more reliable (and they cost a little bit more). Mine were Mexican....
Oh, fun and games.

[AndyBrad]

thats pretty damn poor.

i feel that they are about to alienate a lot of potential custom

[thejaydogg]

After reading all of the posts above I feel quite lucky. I had my engine rebuilt in June at RR and decided I'd get some D585's put on whilst they had the engine out. Couple of weeks later I get a call to say that they no longer stocked them.

I ordered the RRP MK2 coils and had them delivered to RR. They were kind enough to take delivery of them and fit them for me, and I've had no issues with the coils.

Let's just say I'm glad I didn't need a rebuild 2 or 3 months earlier!

[LeeW]

I received my coil kit back just before Christmas completely out of the blue. Had no correspondence from RR, about any of it. They just turned up in the post. Three of the coils have been changed by the looks of it and the working one is still there. They're obviously not new, and I assume they've been taken off another car as they have oil and dirt over them.

I haven't tested them as I have a new coil system now but can only assume its now a working kit again. Does anybody want to make me an offer on them?

[mi60o0]

Did you sold the car?

[LeeW]

Still got the RX8. Been a busy last few months so nothing has happened with it in a while. Trying to move it forward now though.

[Scartlead]

Just read the thread and this sucks, really sorry to hear. Is Ben still affiliated with the club in any way?

[benedunn]

You know, anyone should just pick up the phone if you have any questions, RR is still as approachable as ever and I still own the brand.

The D585 coil thing got really grubby with ‘people’ constantly trying their luck at shafting us over the lifetime warranty - rarely the original purchaser and rarely for any fault of the actual kits. There’s a list as long as my arm of ways that happened and in the end I opted to discontinue the kits.

Just for clarity however, I’ve no intention of leaving any genuine customer in the lurch. An original purchaser with a genuinely faulty kit can return them to us for testing and repair under the lifetime warranty.

Anyone who has met me and knows me will not be surprised to hear this.

With regards to the company structure.

Rotary Revs ltd - the original ltd company dissolved years and years ago as part of a restructure
RotaryRevs Store ltd - the ltd company that we traded as for most of the time Under the RR brand. This company stopped handing out invoices last year but remained ‘trading’ until it’s year end accounts were due. Once they have been filed the company will be dissolved in favour of our MAP brand - the reason for the swap is ‘Rotary’ is pretty specific and the plans for the buisness is to continue growth beyond that market.

The MAP ltd companies there are 2 of. Why?

The first was registered as a place holder back in 15 or 16 when I first envisaged the brand. After 2 years of inactivity though the company was struck off ironically just as I decided that was the company we would keep for the umbrella for all of our brands including RR.

So we formed another MAP ltd company which has just finished its first years trading and is days away from filing its first set of accounts. Which will finally finalise the whole affair and get some normality back in place in a form that will never need tampering with again - Motorsport and Performance works for any automotive market sector and that’s the whole point.

With regards to people’s concerns over the structural integrity of the firm. We are growing at an exponential rate not seen at any time whilst serving the Rotary community exclusively. This growth is allowing us to reinvest hard into our facilities allowing us to offer a better more complete service to all of our customers.
MAP was originally meant to be a stop gap to help us stay in the game in the lul between the RX8 and whatever RX is to follow. As it happened we’ve been fortunate enough to find the new Mustang and establish ourselves firmly in that market meaning there’s now no concerns at all that we will be able to continue to offer the same service that we always have to the RX community - if it wants it.

As I say, anyone who has any concerns is more than welcome to contact us and I’d be pleased to natter about it all and talk about the exciting things that we are getting upto these days.

And as I say, any original purchaser who has any issues with any of the now discontinued RR D585’s should send them to us for testing and repair. We had run out of coils and leads but have put a batch of new coils on the shelf so that we have them in the event any genuine warranty claims crop up.

I’ll also sit down with the office tomorrow and get some clarity in place with regards to this so that we can avoid anymore incorrect and misleading emails in future

All the best everyone.
Ben

[LeeW]

Ben, I hope you can appreciate that I have only been reporting my genuine experience with this warranty claim. I would never want to misreport or be seen to try to muddy the name of a business unfairly. My posts were more of a PSA for all the other owners of the kit on the forum.

I'm glad it seems that any qualifying direct customers (like me) shouldn't now have to go through the battle I did, and the reputation that you and your business have built can go on.

[Scartlead]

Probably begs the question why did you have to go through so many hoops to get an outcome?

[benedunn]

Hi Lee,

That’s ok, you have done nothing wrong and all the failings lie firmly with my company and as such with me. I’m sorry, I will be taking action to ensure this doesn’t happen again

All the best Lee, I’m glad you got your car sorted in the end and hope she stays reliable this time

Ben

[Bex]

found this post because of the title, as i'm having issues with my car and it was mentioned by a few others have you checked your coils - my reply has so far been they were recently replaced with the D585 ones. so im sure that it cant be them...

but reading all these replies about these coils are not what i was expecting to read.
The responses to the original posters Emails are not filling me with hope that my lifetime warranty will actually mean lifetime especially later down the line, what happens in future if someones coils fail a few more years down the line? will they be replaced with another brand or refunded? the lifetime guarantee was what made me think these were the safer purchase to make. though i think Bens response above is a fair one. i look forward to seeing future posts clarifying all the points about the lifetime warranty and where people stand in future.

For the guys who have had issues with coils what were the early warning signs? my car has issues going through the full rev range at the moement its almost impossible to drive above 4500/6000rpms though its better if theres no load on it.?
also as RR seem a bit over run with issues of these at the moment i don't want to add to that by taking them off and sending them for testing if they are fine and not actually the cause of my cars issues, is there a way to work out if they are an issue first? we have been trying to eliminate the possible causes and we are running out of things to look at and try.

[MightyCondor]

found this post because of the title, as i'm having issues with my car and it was mentioned by a few others have you checked your coils - my reply has so far been they were recently replaced with the D585 ones. so im sure that it cant be them...

but reading all these replies about these coils are not what i was expecting to read.
The responses to the original posters Emails are not filling me with hope that my lifetime warranty will actually mean lifetime especially later down the line, what happens in future if someones coils fail a few more years down the line? will they be replaced with another brand or refunded? the lifetime guarantee was what made me think these were the safer purchase to make. though i think Bens response above is a fair one. i look forward to seeing future posts clarifying all the points about the lifetime warranty and where people stand in future.

For the guys who have had issues with coils what were the early warning signs? my car has issues going through the full rev range at the moement its almost impossible to drive above 4500/6000rpms though its better if theres no load on it.?
also as RR seem a bit over run with issues of these at the moment i don't want to add to that by taking them off and sending them for testing if they are fine and not actually the cause of my cars issues, is there a way to work out if they are an issue first? we have been trying to eliminate the possible causes and we are running out of things to look at and try.

I'd be suspecting a blocked cat with those symptoms.

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[Bex]

I'd be suspecting a blocked cat with those symptoms.

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hmmm, i have no cat so my guess would be unlikely, lol. i will go back to the drawing board on trying to find the cause if these symptoms are different from coil failure.

my car is completely down on power, if i put the clutch down and rev it will go through the revs fine. if i drive the car really nicely i can kind of coax it to get to 6/7000 rpms.. if i put my foot down and expect power it will get to 4500rpms and just stutter and refuse. Its odd. i'm not driving it regularly now because of this as i don't want to brake it but i do need to work out the issue and fix it so it can be used again. I will keep trying to work it out. And keep an eye on coils etc for future now i have read this post.