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Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

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Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:41 am

Hi all.

It's been a while, nice to see some familiar faces are still around.

I only occasionally use the 8 now, and so for a lot of the time the battery is disconnected. The last time it was running was about 3 weeks ago.

To charge the battery, I leave the positive battery lead connected and undo the nut and then remove the negative battery lead, hanging it off to the side (ensuring that it is isolated). I use a trickle charger connected directly to the battery terminals with crocodile clips (leaving the battery in situ in the engine bay). Once charged, I remove the trickle charger crocodile clips from the battery and I replace the negative lead and nip up the nut. I've done this a dozen times.

Today was different, I did all the above steps but as I lowered the negative lead onto the negative terminal of the battery (NB I definitely did not touch anything else, nor did I confuse positive and negative) there was some sparking on the negative lead and then a click that sounded like it came from the general area of the fuse box. I did not notice any smoke or smell, just a click about the volume of someone clicking their fingers softly.

There is no power to interior lights nor to the dash, and turning the key to ignition appears to do nothing, I did NOT attempt to crank it to avoid making matters worse. The wipers activated and the front indicators were on solidly.

I have removed the negative lead and the car is now disconnected again.

Where do I start in fixing this, please? Thank you.
Last edited by ChocolateTeapot on Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChrisHolmes » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:05 pm

So it takes a problem to bring you back to life does it? Only joking mate of course!
Fuse by fuse I reckon starting with the Room Fuse in the passenger footwell.
Good luck, need to dash.
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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:11 pm

Hi Chris, it's been a while hasn't it? Nice new motor ;)

Thanks for the tip, I'll have a go.

__________________________________

What's the likelihood of having made a very expensive mistake? Like frying the ECU say? Help put my mind at rest! Thanks, all.

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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChrisHolmes » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:10 pm

Cheers John, I don’t think you will have fried anything.
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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:33 pm

Troubleshooting: I have now run a multimeter, in continuity mode, across all the mini fuses and the JCASE fuses. I found one which appeared to be blown in that I was not getting a beep in continuity mode, that was the 20 amp 'audio' fuse in the cabin fusebox (this has now been changed for a new one). All other fuses passed the continuity test, including the 120 'main' fuse in the top left hand corner of the engine bay fusebox.

I have NOT tested the relays - in short, because I don't know how to. Any tips for testing these (if considered necessary) would be appreciated.

Symptoms: it would appear from a quick review, as soon as the battery is connected the only electrics that are working are the indicators in all four corners (which are solid on) and the windscreen wipers (which are just flailing wildly despite being in the 'off' position on the stalk).

Next steps: any thoughts on how to proceed, please? Thanks again.
Last edited by ChocolateTeapot on Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by warpc0il » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:15 pm

It sounds like one (or more) circuit has got a short to earth, or is at least taking way more power than expected.

It's not unusual to get a tiny spark when you re-connect the -ve as there's always something waiting to take power, if only the alarm and audio systems, plus the courtesy light if you've left a door or boot open

Starting with the basics...
- has the car got any electrical modifications? e.g. Bluetooth or Aux input on the audio, engine gauges, etc?
- has it got electric seats?
- what voltage is your voltmeter reading across the battery?
- Is the battery charged as marked; +ve & -ve? (It is possible to reverse charge a battery)
- what was the last thing you did before disconnecting the battery last time?
- how long has the battery been disconnected and charging?

- do you play CD's and could there be one stuck in the player?
- do you have led interior light bulbs?
- anything plugged into the ODB port?
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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:39 pm

Thanks very much, Dave. I was going through your list step by step, disconnecting/reseating stuff and then I came to your point about running the multimeter across the battery. At first I thought I was going mad, but having checked several other batteries, including other car and household batteries, it looks like the battery is reverse polarised. I don't know how that has happened, but having triple-checked, I do think that is the case. I'm screwed, aren't I?

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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by qwakers » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:42 pm

no, try a new battery. you MIGHT have done damage, but you have a good chance that blown fuses are the extent of your issues.

no promises, mind...

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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by SeeJay » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:44 pm

Isn't the risk of this happening the reason it's usually advised to completely disconnect a battery before charging :?: :-k

Hopefully a new battery will be all that's required..
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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by Shagrington » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:59 pm

:welcome: back :) Were you using a sonic screwdriver and had it on the wrong setting? I understand that can sometimes reverse the polarity. :unibrow:



Sorry, couldn't help myself, hopefully a new battery will be all that's needed.
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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:22 pm

Hi Shaggy, long time no see! I should pop to a Surrey meet at some point when I'm over again!

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Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by GreySilver Beast » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:31 pm

Crikey a stranger from the past and :welcome: back to the RX-8OC :thumleft:

You still keeping the RX-8 at your parents place :?:

Hope you keeping well in the Tax Haven :P
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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by Shagrington » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:41 am

ChocolateTeapot wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:22 pm
Hi Shaggy, long time no see! I should pop to a Surrey meet at some point when I'm over again!
Absolutely, the meets are still going strong. :thumleft:
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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:29 am

GreySilver Beast wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:31 pm
Crikey a stranger from the past and :welcome: back to the RX-8OC :thumleft:

You still keeping the RX-8 at your parents place :?:

Hope you keeping well in the Tax Haven :P
Hi, Nigel, long time no see. Was driving a GT86 the other day and it brought you to mind.

What are you driving these days?

Yes, the 8 (that is unless "He's no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet his maker!" etc.) still adorns my parents' driveway.
Last edited by ChocolateTeapot on Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:30 am

All, update on status.

After much hand-wringing yesterday afternoon and getting a fresh pair of eyes (and a fresh multimeter!) it really does look like the battery's polarity has somehow reversed - no doubt through my own negligence (I didn't earn my username for nothing). So, I've popped out this morning to get a fresh battery and as soon as there's a break in the rain I'm going to drop it in and see how we get on.

Wish me luck!


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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by PeteH » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:22 am

warpc0il wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:15 pm
- Is the battery charged as marked; +ve & -ve? (It is possible to reverse charge a battery)
Just when I think Dave has finally lost it, he goes and puts it in the back of the net! Great suggestion (I'd have never gone with that) =D>

Mr Teapot, good luck with the new battery. I'd be checking your relays if you still have problems. Hopefully your alternator will be OK since you didn't crank it, but I think they have a diode, which you might have blown.
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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:45 am

Just been out to the 8 with the new battery, re-tested all the fuses, including the 120, no luck.

I get lights on the dash ONLY, idiot lights come on, airbag light goes off as normal but I noted that the needles all swing up and then down once when I first turn the key to IGN. Tried twice, same behaviour.

Hazard warning lights come on if you press the button above the head unit, side lights come on if you twist the stalk to 'on'. That looks about it for electrics, no head unit, no climate control (including the red screen above the head unit), no central locking or alarm, no interior lights, the aftermarket accessories I have including the adjustable suspension and water / oil temp gauges do not turn on. I can hear the fuel pump priming (little hum when you turn on IGN).

The car does NOT crank, nothing, no attempt whatsoever, no drain on all power like you would see with cranking.

Okay, so Pete says relays and the alternator. Let's start with relays, how can I test those, please? Thanks.

Any other tips greatly appreciated at this trying time.

____________________

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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by GreySilver Beast » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:48 am

Am sure there is something else you have to do when the battery has been flat on an RX-8 :!:

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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:50 am

GreySilver Beast wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:48 am
Am sure there is something else you have to do when the battery has been flat on an RX-8 :!:

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Thanks, Nigel, I know there's (i) the full left lock -> full right lock -> centre on the wheel procedure for traction control and then (ii) letting it idle with everything turned on so it can re-learn idle, but I haven't even got that far yet: can't even crank. :(
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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by warpc0il » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:46 pm

There are a number of components that won't like reverse voltage, including:
- PCM
- keyless entry unit
- audio system
- alternator
- a/c controller
- ABS/TC ECU
- Power Steering ECU
- fuel pump
- airbags
- ...

actually the list goes on.

You could try pulling the fuses, both in the engine bay and the passenger footwell, for all the secondary systems, e.g. all those not require to start and run the engine, then try reconnecting the power and see what happens.

If the engine starts then you know that the problem(s) are with the secondary systems.
If the engine doesn't start then you need to check if you've got sparks or fuel.
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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:17 pm

Okay, I can have a go - just to be clear please, I'm pulling FUSES only, right? I'm leaving the relays alone?

Thanks very much for the continued support.

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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by warpc0il » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:18 pm

Yes, just fuses to isolate those circuits
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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:20 pm

Alright, understood, I'll be back in a bit with an update. Thank you.

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Re: Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by ChocolateTeapot » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:27 pm

Okay, I'm back - as recommended, I pulled everything that wasn't associated with the engine, so that's all the interior fuses, the power steering fuse (inside the positive battery terminal - I tried it with, and without), and most of the engine bay fuses. Nothing, in fact the behaviour is identical whether all the fuses are in or all the fuses are out (except for the hazards and the headlights).

I got one, teeny tiny little crank, probably half a second's worth on ONE occasion, and that was it. After that, nothing.

I left in:
IG (30A)
IG Key (15A)
Fuel Pump (20A)
ETV (15A)
EGI comp1 (10A)
EGI comp2 (10A)
EGI INJ (15A)
(any more I should have left in, or which I should have taken out?)

To summarise: I have illumination in the dash, I have idiot lights, it sounds like the fuel pump is priming, but no crank, therefore nothing else. As stated before, I am seeing a single sweep (up, then down) on all the gauges. That's about all there is to report. :(
Last edited by ChocolateTeapot on Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Connected battery - blown fuse? Advice required

Post by GreySilver Beast » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:55 pm

Give Luke Murdoch Murdoch's Rotary Specialist a call on this Number - 07415220781 Daniel :thumleft:

Quite a few of us including myself highly recommend him and he will come to you to fix the car =D> =D> =D> =D>
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ChocolateTeapot (Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:42 pm)
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S/D-C/limits - RX-8,3MPS,RX-8 R3,GT86 =17 Skid Pan =1 Go Karting =1 Cars Driven =184
3 MPS MKII T/D = 6
RX-8 R3 T/D = 5 + 7 session's
GT86 T/D = 58.5 + 31 session's
Total T/Days Jan 2011 = 69.5 + 38 session's

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