Help please! Blinking CEL with P0301 Code Power Loss Blue Smoke!

[RotaryDave]

Hi all,
Car is a 2008 RX8 R3 with 74k miles on it.

Mods:
K&N Typhoon intake
Racing Beat Exhaust system

Oil changed by myself 500 miles ago. I use 15W40 Mineral oil, I don't premix. I Fill it just over half way every time. I let it warm up every single time. Plugs, leads and coils changed 10k miles ago.

Ok, so about 2 weeks ago I was going for a spirited drive, and whilst at WOT in 3rd gear at around 7-7.5k rpm I noticed a huge drop in power, a ton of blue smoke emmited from the exhaust with a flashing check engine light.

I pulled over and shut the car off immediately. First thing I assumed was that it was an oil overfill, due to the amount of blue smoke that was bellowing out of my exhaust. When I opened the bonnet I honestly couldn't see any signs of an oil spill, everything looked in order until I noticed that my oil dipstick had popped up, so I pushed it back in (still wandering if the misfire caused it to pop out, or if it popped out first, spilled oil and then caused the misfire???), at this point i was pretty sure that oil has gotten into my engine.

I was about 30 miles from home . I waited for around 20 minutes before I tried to start it up again. When I finally decided to start it up, it was extremely hesitant to start until after about 3-5 mins I managed to get it started. There was a huge amount of blue smoke coming from my exhaust with the smell of oil, after about 10-15 mins the blue smoke had finally settled down. I looked underneath the car to check for any leaks, at this point the engine tone had changed and it was running extremely rough. I finally decided to limp it all the way back home struggling to even go over 50 mph (there were some very angry lorry drivers) engine sounded horrific, was the most agonising drive home ever

When I finally got back home I plugged in my OBD2 scanner and had the code P0301 which is cylinder 1 misfire, or in our cars the front rotor or rotor number 1 misfire. After calling around and doing a ton of internet research over the past couple weeks, everyone was saying to change; spark plugs, coils and leads first, so last week I did just that. When I changed my plugs I noticed that the plugs on rotor no 1 (both trailing and leading) were pretty fouled and even damp with oil, the plugs on rotor no 2 weren't so bad.

So after changing the plugs, wires and leads, as well as cleaning the K&N typhoon intake and MAF sensor (which I noticed also had a lot of oil residue in them, confirming my earlier point of oil getting into the engine) I decided to start her up...

It started up on the dime, no cold start issues at all, even after sitting for about a week she started up straight away. At this point the engine was running a lot better, not perfect! but a lot better...

Now here is my current problem. I took it out for a short drive to see if there was any improvements, and yes it is running a lot better, but for some reason it has seemed to have lost quite a bit of power and has developed this rhythmic like sound, it almost sounds like a baby bridgeport at idle but throughout the entire rev range (not a good thing). (I will attach a video so you guys can see what I'm talking about) You can really feel it through the cabin when the revs drop to around 800rpms at idle. It also doesn't like to rev past 7k (which I brought it up to gently)

There are no metallic rattling sounds that suggest a blown apex seal. Just a weird vibration and a hesitation when I accelerate (like I can almost feel the misfires happening), also when this happens the check engine light flashes suggesting that it is still a misfire? I'm not entirely sure.

It also hot starts brilliantly, no hesitation at all when starting it up from hot or cold and it idles really well (other than that which I have described above) which is why I'm hoping that its not a loss of compression resulting in ultimate engine failure.

I'm completely out of ideas now though and I can't find my answer anywhere else online which is why I am creating this new discussion and I'm really hoping that I can get some more help/ideas from some of the more experienced rotary guys on here.

Apologies for it being so long!

Thank you in advance! all help/input is appreciated! feel free to ask me any questions about it! I'm completely out of ideas!

[RotaryDave]

The engine will never run properly with a K&N Typhoon
search.php?keywords=Typhoon

I suspect there's also some oil still in the intake, probably the resonance chamber
search.php?keywords=resonance+chamber

Which will be getting back onto the MAF
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=36391
and screwing with the fuelling, on top of what the Typhoon is already doing

[RotaryDave]

Hi warpcOil

Thanks for the quick reply! Do you think that this would cause enough pressure for the oil dipstick to be pushed out? also do you think oil in the intake resonance chamber would be the cause of the continuous rhythmic like sound? I am going to attach a video of the sound, thanks a lot!

[RotaryDave]

Pressure in the engine cases is never a good thing and would normally suggest either;
- too much pressure is being generated, e.g. by a blown side seal
or
- the venting system is blocked, either through a massive amount of oil in the pipework or a badly fitted catch tank.

However, the K&N Typhoon can create all sorts of nasty pressure waves in the intake, so this might be solely responsible or a contributing factor.

Have you got access to an oem airbox and panel filter that you can re-fit?

[PeteH]

I'd definitely be suspecting a side seal, so I'd want a compression test. Also, have you been running 15W40 oil all winter? That's on the heavy side for cold conditions.

And about the Typhoon.

[RotaryDave]

A compression test will confirm there's a problem, if the results are bad.

However, it is possible for the side seals to leak within the exhaust section of the chamber, in which case the compression test can still be fine, but exhaust gases are still pressuring the engine case.

I'm sure there's a medical term for tests that can prove that you have a condition but a negative result doesn't prove that you haven't.
In statistics it's called a Type II error.

[RotaryDave]

Thank you both!

To be honest yes I have been using 15w40 all winter but I though that would only act as added protection, please correct me if I'm wrong I'm very new to the rotary!
I am hoping to also get a compression test done soon.

I think I'm going to give the intake a good inspection for oil as well as the throttle body perhaps? and maybe look into another intake as I have heard the K&N Typhoon horror stories, just never thought it would actually happen to me

Thanks again guys I'll keep this discussion updated.

[RotaryDave]

Ive just uploaded a video to youtube showing how my car is running:


You can really hear it when I go near the exhaust.
Btw the engine light isn't on because i just cleared it but its back again with the same P0301 misfire

[13Black]

Take a front plug out and disconnected the ESS/crank sensor.
Record the sound when cranking the engine over to make sure the chuffs are even.

[RotaryDave]

Hi 13Black,

Ok I will try that tomorrow when I inspect the intake.

Thanks!

[acegeezer]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Mazda original.. they went to great lengths to ensure it's efficiency.. all you get with aftermarket intakes is extra noise, but a typhoon is a definite

[RotaryDave]

Hey guys,

Just a quick update on this, so i have tried to target some of of the things you guys have mentioned. Inspected and cleaned out the intake, there was some more oil in there. I also cleaned the plugs and did the ECU reset procedure.
After all of this unfortunately the car is still running the same, so I'm going to try and get it booked in at HME rotary for a compression test sometime soon and see what they think the issue could be. Thanks a lot for your help. Ill keep this discussion updated with my progress.

[PaulAV]

Mick is a good guy, knows his stuff and will look after you, had my engine from him (yes it did have a bearing spin, but 20 months down the line he stuck by his warranty and rebuilt the engine, I'm now 14000 miles down the line and car runs fine)

[RotaryDave]

Hi guys,

Update. So I went to HME today got a compression test done and yes, you guys were right, it’s a side seal that’s causing the problem. Gonna have to get a rebuild there was also oil all over the under tray so Mick suspects that it could be a possible rear main seal causing the oil leak as well . Thanks a lot for your help though guys.

[RotaryDave]

Here are the compression test results:

DF9D8FAE-C363-4D8B-ABE0-2D7251012094.jpeg

It’s a shame because other than the 054 psi, all the rest are pretty good results

[New Duke]

Glad you finally got some answers. At least you know now.

Go on, keep the Typhoon post rebuild. You know you want to. I love mine

[RotaryDave]

Haha thanks man. It’s a love hate relationship with the typhoon. Think I might just keep it and get a ram air duct or modify something to force cold air into the thing

[acegeezer]

It's a pile of doggy stuff.. that's a majority opinion from those in the know

Read it all and then bin it.. search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keyw ... n&start=25

[PeteH]

It’s a shame because other than the 054 psi, all the rest are pretty good results

It's not terrible news. You may well just need seals. The fact that all other readings are good indicates that most of the housings and plates are probably OK. So it should keep the rebuild cost down.

[Nickp47]

Maybe it would be a good idea to sell that RB exhaust to help fund the rebuild

[RotaryDave]

It's a pile of doggy stuff.. that's a majority opinion from those in the know

Read it all and then bin it.. search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keyw ... n&start=25

I guess your right. I’m sure they call it the ‘Typhoon’ for a reason.
Anyone looking to do swapsies with their OEM intake for my Typhoon please let me know.

[RotaryDave]

It’s a shame because other than the 054 psi, all the rest are pretty good results

It's not terrible news. You may well just need seals. The fact that all other readings are good indicates that most of the housings and plates are probably OK. So it should keep the rebuild cost down.

Thanks Pete, yes Mick did say that actually. The cost of the rebuild would be really down to the condition of the housings, especially because the S2 housing are a lot harder to source with the additional oil injector, he said it depends how much damage was made when my side seal went.

If anyone could recommend some good places to go for a rebuild that don’t cost a kidney that would be greatly appreciated.

[RotaryDave]

Maybe it would be a good idea to sell that RB exhaust to help fund the rebuild

Lol Nick you are not slick I’ll let you know if anything changes though

[acegeezer]

Here you go Dave.. viewtopic.php?f=205&t=75125

[New Duke]

Haha thanks man. It’s a love hate relationship with the typhoon. Think I might just keep it and get a ram air duct or modify something to force cold air into the thing

That's what I did. Last year I was overheating on track and in stationary traffic during the heatwave, which was in fairness down to the Typhoon. However the air flow rate was always fine (and I had the car tuned by RRP for that intake). Mine's never been down on power, as is the common myth.

Since fitting the RB air scoop intake temps have dropped by 5 degrees Celsius on average at speed, which depends on a few variables. So it does run cooler now. Air flow rates remain exactly the same as they did before fitting the scoop, and are and have always been very reliable. I've probably done more data logging and tweaking with the Typhoon over the past 2 years than anyone here. Partly as a curiosity because of the negativity towards it. I didn't even buy mine.

It's not perfect, but it's flaws are massively overblown. The increase in air temperature with a Typhoon can be mitigated as I just explained. The stock airbox would certainly benefit from the air ram scoop in hot weather too. I saw a few RX8s with stock air intakes overheat on track last summer...

With the scoop fitted my engine now takes forever to warm up in cold weather. A positive going for the Typhoon is it excels at getting the engine up to temp fast = less cold wear.

Revving it with the Typhoon when stationary is just a no no. Redline it a couple of times and the PCM starts to panic. Which is why I roll my eyes every time someone pulls out dyno results and completely misses that fact and treats it like the stock or a cold air intake. Different logic needs to apply.

Hopefully that's stoked the fire a bit. I'm not suggesting you keep the Typhoon. At least sell it though if you're getting rid. It's worth a lot more on eBay than the stock 'washing machine on full spin' air box will cost you.

(I do agree with John that RRP is THE place to go for a rebuild these days)