Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

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StreetDragster
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Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by StreetDragster »

Hi All,

I know these things have been discussed before, with the mention of batteries in use including-

Varley Lithium Li-5 (~£240 1.1kg 335cca)
Oddessey PC680 (~£100 7kg 220cca)
Oddessey PC950 (~£180 9kg 450cca
Ballistic Performance batteries (the ones Clive/MRP sell) EVX30L-24 (~£240 2.1kg 750 burst cranking amps)
Type 063 Lead Acid (~£45 12kg 390kg)
Varta E23 (~£80 17kg 630cca)

Ballistic performance have ceased trading now so there are no warrantys, but i think they used to be £400 and now they are closer to £200 so more of a consideration. As more and more RX8's get used on track, and more of them get these lightweight batteries with/without relocation kits, I wonder what people used at the moment and have you had any downsides?

My car is none road legal, it has no air conditioning or radio but it does have an electric water pump and a gearbox oil pump which run on 30-60 seconds after the engine has been shut off. The engine is fitted with a standard alternator which is the only item on a belt from the crank pulley driven at standard ratio, and still has the OEM electric power steering and the OEM radaitor fans.

I'm looking for a battery to fit in the standard location (unless someone can convince me on a good reason why it shouldn't be), it can be placed on a conditioning charger between trackdays without issue as there is power where the car is stored, but i don't have any special chargers incase one is needed for lithium-tech batteries.

I'm looking for reliable starting and operating from cold, down to 5 degrees, i'm unlikely to be doing trackdays cooler than that, with as little weight as possible, the Varley Lithium Li-5 seems the best suited in this regard.

There does seem to be massive CCA differences though between racing batteries and lead acid batterys though, no sure how much of a factor this is?

Thanks in advance

Matt
Last edited by StreetDragster on Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by 13Black »

My Odyssey PC680 is about a year old now.
I'm pretty sure it used to crank at about 250rpm on standard starter when new.

These days, if left for a few weeks it'll not have enough oomph to turn the engine over, so I either leave it disconnected, on a charger, or I have some spare leads to plonk a Varta E23 in parallel to jump it with. When it's all warmed up and fully charged it'll crank at about 200rpm on its own still.
From cold and maybe not a full charge, it'll crank at 150rpm which does sound very sluggish but it doesn't take long to start really - relatively new street port with decent compression mind you.

Something to bare in mind for some people - though I imagine not a problem in your case.
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Re: Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by boosted »

My Westy came with a Powervamp 25...what 5 years ago now......cranks at 190..on an old original 1.3Kw starter....i disconnect it after use and ever now and then put it on 1 amp trickle charge...
Things is its just as heavy as an 063 thats 30 quid new...


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Re: Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by Eddie_r32 »

I have a pc950 and it's been great, I leave it on a ctek when not in use but not noticed any downsides yet to it
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Re: Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by PeteH »

I ran a lithium battery in the normal position, and am convinced (but have no proof) that it failed when out on track. My assumption is it was temperature related. The problem with it failing was that I lost power steering, and all the electronic stability systems (including brake force distribution).

I would be nervous about running a lithium battery on a car with EPAS, and I certainly wouldn't run it in the engine bay anymore.

(When it did work it was amazing. Cranked better than a lead battery, and was ridiculously light).
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Re: Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by warpc0il »

The battery tray has built-in air cooling ducts that often get blocked when people fit the wrong batteries.
Running without the battery cover also prevents this cooling being fully effective.

Batteries that use technologies other than lead-acid, even lead-acid gel batteries, can have much higher cooling requirements than a conventional construction, to avoid hotspots or the entire battery overheating. A dedicated ram-air scope for the tray intake may be a possible solution.

Moving the battery out of the engine bay reduces the local ambient but also creates its own issues with cooling and venting - lead-acid batteries give off hydrogen when charging - and all batteries create their own heat when charging or under heavy load.
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Re: Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by StreetDragster »

Thanks Pete, can you remember which brand/type of battery it was?

Was it within the OEM battery 'box' or just open to the engine bay airflow?

If small enough, i wonder where you could get it into somewhere up front that well cooled, maybe in the 'bay' with the oil coolers mounted on the inner wing.

Thanks

Matt
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Re: Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by Eddie_r32 »

You want it where you can get to it quickly, my mate fitted his under the dash in his time attack car, I was with him when it was about to hit the rollers and something went wrong and the battery started swelling up and we had to just watch as couldn't get near it safe to disconnect and Chuck out the car
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Re: Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by PeteH »

BCTZ20HL-FP-S

I had it in the battery box. The cooling duct was open, but there was no lid on the battery box, so how effective the cooling actually was I have no idea. Ultimately, I just don't trust a 7 amp hour battery in an installation where the steering can take 50 amps..... Hard track use will have the ePAS working very hard and very often. In Time Attack we also have to use our headlights on fast laps. And you have all the other electrical loads to add. Lithium batteries are "all or nothing", and I don't like the implications of 'nothing'....

Maybe if I run without ePAS, and I mount the battery somewhere better, I might consider it again. But the old mantra of "to finish first you must first finish" won out for me. I run 15kg of lead acid! Reliability has to be paramount on the track.
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Re: Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by Liam22 »

FTR, I ran the same battery as Pete for 3 years, incl 2 hour races with no issues. Relocation to the passenger compartment is relatively easy. It's cooler in there.

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Re: Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by warpc0il »

Wrapping the battery box in this stuff
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-F ... 0882890845
might help repel much of the radiant heat within the engine bay.

It has been used, with some success to insulated the intake airbox & hose and prevent the air charge being heated on drift cars, which work their engines hard with little forward airflow.

You could even consider adding a small fan to aid the ram air flow within the battery box, though this would add complexity and power consumption. A PC fan with a temperature switch wouldn't be that complex and would only kick-in when needed. The trick would be to place it such that it doesn't block natural airflow when not spinning.
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Re: Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by warpc0il »

I just found this diagram, which shows the battery air cooling ducts
battery cooling.png
battery cooling.png (43.16 KiB) Viewed 1041 times
If the cover is left off, most of the air flow just escapes up the face of the battery and away, rather than cooling the sides and the top.
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Re: Trackday Batteries- 2019 Revist

Post by MintyFreshRacing »

I know its a bit late, but to add my 2 cents...

I run the Varley Lithium 5 in my rallycross car. But I also only do 6-7 minute races at a time. So heat build up is not an issue at all.

One thing I will say, that I only found out last week, is that I put an uprated starter motor on, and the battery won't turn it over.
Now whether thats a starter motor problem, or the fact the battery hasn't got enough juice I don't know.
I put the original one back on, and it started first go. it's just sometimes it can be a little laborious turning over.

Saying that, it's perfect for my use due to its ridiculous weight, and the fact it doesn't get used for long periods of time.
If I were to run a car with more electric things turned on (I only have the ePAS, all other systems are removed) then I would go for a heavier more powerful battery for sure, as my use case is very specialist.
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