S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

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S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by New Duke »

When I was 18 my mum told me "No matter what anyone tells you, size matters"

Er, thanks mum. That sadly was not the most awkward thing she ever said to me.

And on that note! I've finally been able to establish the truth behind the great question: Aren't S1 and R3 tow hooks the same?

In short no, they're not. The R3 tow hook is approx half a centimetre longer. Otherwise they're identical.

Which would explain why some aftermarket S1 folding tow hooks, designed with the hook end close to the bumper do not fit. But any S1 hook that's a bit more generous with the length should be just fine. I've ordered a cheap folding tow hook off eBay that apparently 'won't' fit an R3 to test. (I'm still having the steel tow hooks made for anyone who's seen that thread)

Pics below for reference. The last one is just to show what difference 5mm makes and that it's much more than the margin of error with my wonky caliper measuring. Thanks to casey and CheekyWankel for lending their tow hooks for science.

S1 hook:
DSC_1151.JPG
DSC_1152.JPG
DSC_1149.JPG

R3 hook:
DSC_1184.JPG
DSC_1175.JPG
DSC_1188.JPG
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by GreySilver Beast »

Disappointed that you didn't take that measuring device into the Gents Haydn Image :kinky:

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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by Harrizone »

I think the 5mm difference is down to your lousy ability to measure correctly using your recently aquired vernier gauge. :-k :lol: :lol: :lol:

Only joking Haydn, just putting a little inkling of doubt in your mind to send you scurrying back to measure again. :roll: :lol: :lol:

God Nigel you are so predictable. [-X
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by kopite72 »

GreySilver Beast wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:06 am
Disappointed that you didn't take that measuring device into the Gents Haydn Image :kinky:

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Skitting here :lol: Good man Nigel :lol:
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S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by GreySilver Beast »

Harrizone wrote:God Nigel you are so predictable. [-X
I like being predictable Ray ;)
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by delta0 »

I have 3 tow hooks in my boot. How many are actually required?
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by SeeJay »

Simple logic says 1..since your car can only be towed in one direction at once..

Track use notwithstanding,in which case you'd need 2..one front and rear..
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by delta0 »

SeeJay wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:48 pm
Simple logic says 1..since your car can only be towed in one direction at once..

Track use notwithstanding,in which case you'd need 2..one front and rear..
Makes sense. It seemed odd to have 3 in there. Especially as the third one was just floating around and not locked in place.
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S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by GreySilver Beast »

Every RX-8 Series1 and Series2 from New had 3 Tow Hooks with the car as they are really for holding the car in place while in Transit onboard the Ship :!:
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by casey »

That makes sense! I'd always wondered why 3 were provided - gave one of my 3 away to someone in need a while back (to reduce weight :lol: )
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by untakenname »

I think they are called tie down hooks and not tow hooks nowadays due to this, in the manuals of many cars they specifically say not to tow using them.
Probably ok for trackdays just getting out of gravel being pulled straight but some tie down hooks don't protrude far enough so if you turn they will mess up the bumper.

I replaced my rear tow hook with one from a newer Mazda as it looks more sleek being made out of one piece of metal rather than welded.

I leave it in to deter inconsiderate parking, it was coated with blue paint the other day so it looks like it did it's job in protecting the bumper and exhaust :twisted:
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S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by GreySilver Beast »

Just goes to show some of my Posts are very useful sometimes \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by warpc0il »

In theory, leaving a "tow eye" fitted in place should compromise the crash protection, as forces would be transmitted directly to the strong parts of the structure before the bumpers and other crumple zones had had a chance to absorb energy.

However, while I suspect this would be true if you went straight into a solid wall (backwards in the case of untakenname) , in most car vs car collisions the eye bolt would probably just punch a hole and everything would then work as expected.

There was a case of an S2000 that was caught by a foreign truck changing lanes on the motorway. The crash investigators reported that the tow eye protruding from the rear of the Honda had been caught by the truck wheel and that had caused the car to be spun around and spear off down the embankment. The coroner noted the report but didn't find the car driver in any way responsible - which was little consolation for his family :(
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by PeteH »

I don't want to be boring, but leaving the lashing eyes in place is likely to be illegal. The police could ask you to remove them. It shouldn't pass an MOT either. Solid bits that stick out are frowned upon because all the carefully worked out pedestrian safety measures built into the car are rendered useless by these leg-breakers.
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by ChrisHolmes »

I presume you used the term "leg breakers" because you too have walked round the front if the car at a track day and....":##**€$] that smarts!
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by PeteH »

:thumright: :evil:
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by delta0 »

untakenname wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:47 pm
I think they are called tie down hooks and not tow hooks nowadays due to this, in the manuals of many cars they specifically say not to tow using them.
Probably ok for trackdays just getting out of gravel being pulled straight but some tie down hooks don't protrude far enough so if you turn they will mess up the bumper.

I replaced my rear tow hook with one from a newer Mazda as it looks more sleek being made out of one piece of metal rather than welded.

I leave it in to deter inconsiderate parking, it was coated with blue paint the other day so it looks like it did it's job in protecting the bumper and exhaust :twisted:

20170111_170358.jpg

IMG_20190106_154749.jpg
Any weight difference between the new and old ones?
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S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by GreySilver Beast »

My folding down towing eyes passed the last 3 MOT's with flying colours :twisted:
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by untakenname »

I'm unsure of the weight, it's wider at the base than the OEM RX8 but tapers down quite a bit.
PeteH wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:18 pm
I don't want to be boring, but leaving the lashing eyes in place is likely to be illegal. The police could ask you to remove them. It shouldn't pass an MOT either. Solid bits that stick out are frowned upon because all the carefully worked out pedestrian safety measures built into the car are rendered useless by these leg-breakers.
May technically be illegal but I've never heard of someone getting pulled for it, after all there's plenty of cars with tow bars fitted 24/7 and also quite a few of those 'one life' 4x4'ers with winches on the front of their cars along with light bars and aerials.
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by Harrizone »

PeteH wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:18 pm
Solid bits that stick out are frowned upon because all the carefully worked out pedestrian safety measures built into the car are rendered useless by these leg-breakers.
Questionable Pete, as my 'bull bars' were always ignored, not metioned at MOT time and several police constables viewed the car numerous times and if they could have found a reason to book me for any reason they would surely have done so. One at the Prodrive course said that as far as he was concerned they were fine.
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by New Duke »

I imagine you'll be fine (read: get away with it) unless you're in an accident and someone gets badly hurt. If they can pin a modification on you as the cause then they'll nail you for it. But that goes for all mods.

Having said that... I've hopefully got a folding tow hook arriving today to test fit.
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by zippyonline »

PeteH wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:18 pm
I don't want to be boring, but leaving the lashing eyes in place is likely to be illegal. The police could ask you to remove them. It shouldn't pass an MOT either. Solid bits that stick out are frowned upon because all the carefully worked out pedestrian safety measures built into the car are rendered useless by these leg-breakers.
By the same vein, are tow bars/hooks meant to be removed when not towing then? :-k

So looking at the MOT, specifically this section: https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/ ... tion_6.1.6
You must inspect all types of coupling mechanisms and towbars fitted to the rear of a vehicle, including fifth-wheel couplings.

You don't need to inspect emergency towing eyes.
I must admit, seems a bit strange that it would pass an MOT but won't then pass the type approval/iva type test, but I guess it's the same as how emissions are tested and stuff like that where it would pass an MOT but not a type approval test.
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by delta0 »

untakenname wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:47 pm
I think they are called tie down hooks and not tow hooks nowadays due to this, in the manuals of many cars they specifically say not to tow using them.
Probably ok for trackdays just getting out of gravel being pulled straight but some tie down hooks don't protrude far enough so if you turn they will mess up the bumper.

I replaced my rear tow hook with one from a newer Mazda as it looks more sleek being made out of one piece of metal rather than welded.

I leave it in to deter inconsiderate parking, it was coated with blue paint the other day so it looks like it did it's job in protecting the bumper and exhaust :twisted:

20170111_170358.jpg

IMG_20190106_154749.jpg
I just looked in the manual and they are tie down hooks. It says they should not be used for towing. This technically means we shouldn’t need any of them unless we are getting the car shipped somewhere.
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Re: S1 vs R3 tow hook - measured with PICS!

Post by warpc0il »

There's a difference between "towing a car" e.g. for a distance - which you must never do with an RX8 anyway, as to wrecks the transmission, compared to using the tow eyes to tow-start the engine or to recover the car from a trackside gravel trap.

Some tracks require you to have tow eyes fitted for track days, while those that don't "require" it can be very vocal if you do end up in the kitty litter and they have to red-flag the session and close the track for 20 minutes to get you out. Any attempt to pull the car out of the gravel, using anything other than the tow-eye(s), can cause very serious damage to the body/frame/suspension.
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