After track day lots of grinding!
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
1144's are a good fast road and occasional track pad, but they wouldn't be my choice for an all out track car at all, they do wear rapidly over about 300c bulk temps, you'll probably be at least there on long track sessions. I'd be stepping up to a more modern compound with a higher heat threshold if it's track only, F4Rs, CL5/6, DS1.11, XP8/10, etc.
Also, heavily grooved discs (which BD usually are), will definately cause more taper wear as the leading edge digs in, switch to plain discs, you don't need grooves unless you're using endurance pads or race pads on the road when they can glaze over at lower temperatures (or rally cars, for the same reason)
Also, heavily grooved discs (which BD usually are), will definately cause more taper wear as the leading edge digs in, switch to plain discs, you don't need grooves unless you're using endurance pads or race pads on the road when they can glaze over at lower temperatures (or rally cars, for the same reason)
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- ChrisHolmes (Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:18 pm)
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Help only the right hand side moved the left piston did not.
Now I think u broke something
How do I fix this?
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Appears this is normal next time I need to use a bit of wood when pushing brakes. Going to get Luke to sort it for me...diy done for 2018 + 2019 lol
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Refit the piston that has come out and brace it with a block of wood.
Put a thinner block of wood across to catch the other pistons
Crack open the bleed nipple and apply pressure.
- The cleanest pressure source is an airline.
- the alternative is a grease gun, but then you have to strip the caliper and clean out the grease.
Alternatively, you could try refilling the brake fluid and see if you can bleed the system, at least well enough to build pressure and get the other pistons moving.
Put a thinner block of wood across to catch the other pistons
Crack open the bleed nipple and apply pressure.
- The cleanest pressure source is an airline.
- the alternative is a grease gun, but then you have to strip the caliper and clean out the grease.
Alternatively, you could try refilling the brake fluid and see if you can bleed the system, at least well enough to build pressure and get the other pistons moving.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Cheers I think it may need a rebuild as the bottom pistons did not move. Once it’s all back together will test it again.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Strange how that has happened so soon!
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
The problem with a lot of "racing calipers" is that they have no provision to protect the extended piston or the oil seal from water/salt spray or a build-up of dust/debris.
This makes corrosion and/or seizure almost inevitable for cars that are used on the roads, or even track-only cars that aren't having their brakes services at least every other outing.
Such calipers often have aluminium alloy casting and stainless steel pistons.
Stainless sounds like a good idea and can't rust or flake chrome, but stainless and aluminium alloys react electrolytically in the presence of salty water, and bond in a way that cannot shift.
This makes corrosion and/or seizure almost inevitable for cars that are used on the roads, or even track-only cars that aren't having their brakes services at least every other outing.
Such calipers often have aluminium alloy casting and stainless steel pistons.
Stainless sounds like a good idea and can't rust or flake chrome, but stainless and aluminium alloys react electrolytically in the presence of salty water, and bond in a way that cannot shift.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
This is the other side same issue
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Those upper pistons do look a bit 'crusty',and obviously haven't been pushing the pads anywhere near enough,so maybe what Dave suggest above,is your issue..
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
They do look a bit scabby them.
I would try a thicker bit of wood on the extended bottom ones with a thinner bit in the top ones then try and force the top ones out a bit more to even it up then give them all a good clean and maybe a fine bit of wet and dry with oil on to get them smooth again.
They certainly look like they need to be moved in and out a fair bit to free them off.
I would try a thicker bit of wood on the extended bottom ones with a thinner bit in the top ones then try and force the top ones out a bit more to even it up then give them all a good clean and maybe a fine bit of wet and dry with oil on to get them smooth again.
They certainly look like they need to be moved in and out a fair bit to free them off.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
And plenty of bleeding afterwards now you've popped the piston out
Inside, outside, inside again, if you've never bled a 4-pot before.
Inside, outside, inside again, if you've never bled a 4-pot before.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
I am going to get a rebuild kit and do them all, for now Luke has got me back on the road
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Well, if it's a complete refurb pop those stainless steel sliders out and clean and grease (ceretec or similar) underneath them too - they're terrible corrosion traps from the galvanic action between the stainless and the alloy on those calipers - then it pushes the sliders out and the pads start sticking.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
You can use a foot pump or the electric pump that comes with the car if you don't have an air line.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Good to know I am probably going to get a pro to do it. Just don’t have the workspace at home
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Hi Ramesh,
I've been catching up with the forum, so a bit late on reply. Like Pete said:
I've been catching up with the forum, so a bit late on reply. Like Pete said:
I really would check you have the leading and trailing pistons the right way round - it is entirely possible that someone put the link pipe in the wrong end (i.e. for a leading setup rather than trailing) so you may have the brakes setup that they're the wrong way round. If they're the wrong way round, then you end up with a wedge pad - which is what it seems you have, so definitely worth a check. The AP Racing CP5200 has different sized pistons from looking at the engineering drawings, so they should be handed accordingly.PeteH wrote: ↑Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:32 pmTwin piston calipers should have a smaller piston on the leading end of the pad, and a larger piston on the trailing end of the pad. I don't know if these calipers have unequal piston sizes? And I'm not sure if the calipers can be mounted upside down or on the wrong side of the car? Things to check, anyway.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Thanks Zippy. I thought Freaky's response was odd, and now I've checked, I agree. These are meant to be reproductions of the CP5200, but the CP5200 had:
- different piston sizes top and bottom
- aluminium pistons
- dirt seals
I am a little concerned that these calipers are not a faithful reproduction of an excellent AP calipers, but instead, a cheap copy with flaws. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
If someone has these calipers on the shelf can they please measure the pistons. We can then check them against the AP specification....
- different piston sizes top and bottom
- aluminium pistons
- dirt seals
I am a little concerned that these calipers are not a faithful reproduction of an excellent AP calipers, but instead, a cheap copy with flaws. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
If someone has these calipers on the shelf can they please measure the pistons. We can then check them against the AP specification....
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
viewtopic.php?f=146&t=78845
This mention of seals in the above post makes for interesting reading after the post above!
This mention of seals in the above post makes for interesting reading after the post above!
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Thanks for the link Chris.
This is important.
It looks clear from Zippy's photos that the calipers do have different sized pistons. But the larger piston is the lower one. If this is correct then these calipers are only suitable for front mounting (in front of the wheel centre). The RX-8 has rear mounted calipers, of course, so these pistons appear to be the wrong way around.....
If I am correct then I think the problem could be fixed by swapping the connecting pipe to the bleed nipple position, and putting the bleed nipples where the pipe currently is. Then put the left hand calipers on the right (upside down), and visa-versa. This also depends on the brake pipe connection and routing still working OK.
I wouldn't be happy to actually recommend this "fix" unless I actually see and measure the calipers, and do a trial fit on a car. If anyone is in the Surrey / Sussex area, and would like me to check out their Freaky calipers then please drop me a pm.
This is important.
It looks clear from Zippy's photos that the calipers do have different sized pistons. But the larger piston is the lower one. If this is correct then these calipers are only suitable for front mounting (in front of the wheel centre). The RX-8 has rear mounted calipers, of course, so these pistons appear to be the wrong way around.....
If I am correct then I think the problem could be fixed by swapping the connecting pipe to the bleed nipple position, and putting the bleed nipples where the pipe currently is. Then put the left hand calipers on the right (upside down), and visa-versa. This also depends on the brake pipe connection and routing still working OK.
I wouldn't be happy to actually recommend this "fix" unless I actually see and measure the calipers, and do a trial fit on a car. If anyone is in the Surrey / Sussex area, and would like me to check out their Freaky calipers then please drop me a pm.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Product Recall?
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Yes, looking at the other post they have indeed all been setup the wrong way around. Doh.
And no dust seals as advertised either if they are the ones in that post.
And no dust seals as advertised either if they are the ones in that post.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Happy to use my calipers for some investigative purposes. I didn't look that closely when taking the photos etc. but yes they appear to be setup the wrong way round! - and having had a look through the group buy thread, I would suspect most members are setup like this (apart from possibly someone who I remember received 2 calipers for the same side, or something...!)
I've put my listing on hold for the moment, I couldn't sell it on to somebody else in the club.
I've put my listing on hold for the moment, I couldn't sell it on to somebody else in the club.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
So oem calipers are good enought ? And we don’t need racing calipers for road cars ?
Or possible I’m all wrong like always
I like the look of bigger brake kit but never made to the order stage.
And I love cosmetic mods
Or possible I’m all wrong like always
I like the look of bigger brake kit but never made to the order stage.
And I love cosmetic mods
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Mine (4pots) have been used hard on track and never had brake fade and stop me well, one thing I like about these is they are not sliding calipers and are new. The issue if the calipers being upside down I'd not a massive one, just have to swap the link pipe and nipples from side to side, it's been good that it's been noticed though
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!
Hi
I am in Surrey so happy to use my setup for testing. We really need Freaky to answer these questions. I bought these for track use and this issue is not good at all, especially if the brakes are not to the spec as advertised.
Can the club help?
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I am in Surrey so happy to use my setup for testing. We really need Freaky to answer these questions. I bought these for track use and this issue is not good at all, especially if the brakes are not to the spec as advertised.
Can the club help?
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Current
M3 E92
OLD Car
Half-Bridge Engine
Lightened Fly + Clutch
Whiteline ARB's + Droplinks
Brake Upgrade 4 pot front
AEM Intake
D969 Coils
BlackDiamond Disc + M1144 Pads
YellowSpeed Suspension
Dwell timers adjusted
Short Shifter
Braided Brake + Clutch Lines
M3 E92
OLD Car
Half-Bridge Engine
Lightened Fly + Clutch
Whiteline ARB's + Droplinks
Brake Upgrade 4 pot front
AEM Intake
D969 Coils
BlackDiamond Disc + M1144 Pads
YellowSpeed Suspension
Dwell timers adjusted
Short Shifter
Braided Brake + Clutch Lines