After track day lots of grinding!

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zippyonline
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by zippyonline »

Dr. FrankenRex wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:16 pm
zippyonline wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:59 pm
Anyway, I think my point is those with these brakes should check that they're setup in the correct orientation - is this something Dan the originator of the group buy could orchestrate?
Being flat, no, it isn't something I can or should orchestrate. Ultimately it's not my product, and all I did was organise a group buy.
Hi Dan. I'm not even trying to slightly drag you into this really, and I think everyone who took part in the group buy and freaky are quite chuffed that you've organised something that wouldn't have otherwise been available to us RX8 owners.

What I'm trying to say and perhaps put in-eloquently (is that a word!?) is that there's a few cases of brakes that have been setup in leading configuration, and therefore it may be nice to point this out to owners of the group buy to just double check that their brakes have been setup in trailing configuration to suit the RX-8. Given brakes are quite a useful safety feature on the car - checking wouldn't be a bad idea. As you kindly organised the group buy, I thought you would be best placed having a list of members who took part. I'd be happy enough to then fire a round of PM's on the forum from this point in order to not drag you in any further - perhaps linking to this thread may be beneficial to highlight this. This may save many members going through the same process as Ramesh, or it may well be that everything is fine for everyone else and all the other brakes have indeed been setup as trailing - in which case no harm done.

I apologise if I didn't word my original post particularly well.

Mods - I also think the thread might be a handy one to save under a bit of a forum that doesn't auto-archive as there's some handy bits of information that may be beneficial to other members hidden here.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by rameshr »

So Luke tried to do this today, one of the nur on the bar would not budge...so looks like I will have to send this in. Will chat to freaky tomorrow:)


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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by Mpv2k3 »

I originally recieved two calipers for the same side and was advised that the cross bar couldn't be swapped around. I can't remember from whom though. #-o

I will have to check my calipers when I get a chance but looking at pictures of old pads I've changed, they show signs of tapering so my calipers may be wrong too... :(

Not had much luck with theses calipers.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by warpc0il »

There's a difference between incorrectly "handed" calipers and calipers that have been assembled for leading vs trailing installation.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by zippyonline »

Mpv2k3 wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:17 pm
I originally recieved two calipers for the same side and was advised that the cross bar couldn't be swapped around. I can't remember from whom though. #-o
Ironically that was me (and Dave). viewtopic.php?f=144&t=74656&start=250#p1120735
zippyonline wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:11 pm
Mpv2k3 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:44 pm
Need to find out if the bleed valves and cross bar can just be swapped over to the opposite ends
Afraid you can't. There is a leading and trailing piston (smaller piston on leading edge), so the orientation of these should remain. So whilst you can swap the bleed nipples and the link pipe and the hydraulics would still operate, the brakes won't function as they should.
warpc0il wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:15 pm
No because...

He beat me to it.
I've managed to swap mine over my link pipe over on mine, which I was fully prepared to not follow through with - as swapping pipes over etc. is well known for ending in failure and I know of many experienced mechanics and competent spanner people who won't as it's very easy/common to round and strip them. As mine were brand new and after discussions with Freaky who won't take back my new calipers - but would swap the pipe over if I sent them back, I thought I would see how they'd go to save some faff. They just about went OK - but mine are effectively brand new, so won't be subjected to the corrosion between different metals in a road salt condition - so be very wary of doing this if they've had some mileage on the road, something could go horribly wrong!
P1040937.JPG
Anyway, I now have some calipers that have the leading and trailing brake pistons the correct orientation for an RX-8!
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by Mpv2k3 »

What size spanners were needed?

Just incase upon inspection of my calipers once I get time, I need to change them over.

Hopefully I won't need to as it's not something I'm happy about having to do. :x
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by warpc0il »

Those pipe nuts look like 11mm in the photo but I could be wrong.

The (very) important thing is that you use a brake pipe spanner, effectively a deep ring spanner with a slot for the pipe, and not just an open-ended.

Open-ended spanner put all the force on just two opposite corners of the hex head.
With a normal bolt this can round-off those corners but with a brake pipe nut being hollow the nut can just crush.

A well-fitting brake pipe spanner puts the force on all six-corners and it much less likely to damage the nut.
Note that some cheap brake-pipe spanners are poorly formed and are worse than useless...

The bleed screws are also hollow and should be removed with a deep six-sided socket - not a spanner.
When replacing the bleed screws, they should only be tightened until the cone end seats - tighten any further and the hole at the side will crush, tipping the cone such that it can't make a good seal.

Note that this response is not just directed at Mpv2k3 - who may very well already know this stuff - but also anyone else following this thread.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by zippyonline »

Mpv2k3 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:43 pm
What size spanners were needed?
10mm for bleed nipples, 11mm for the link pipe.
warpc0il wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:10 pm
Those pipe nuts look like 11mm in the photo but I could be wrong.

The (very) important thing is that you use a brake pipe spanner, effectively a deep ring spanner with a slot for the pipe, and not just an open-ended.
I'm impressed with your spotting sizes from a photo! Just to note, there's not much space in there. I have a half decent 11mm flare spanner, and there wasn't enough space to use it. My open ended was fine - just, you can see the spanner flex before it goes too far, I was expecting to have to abort that actually. I'd expect you couldn't do that if it had been on the car....
Definitely need a decent 6 point socket on the bleed nipples though, they're not as high quality as the link pipe fittings.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by Mpv2k3 »

I've got braided brake lines so I can't clamp these off. I guess I'm going to need to do a full brake fluid change too then?

Or any suggestions?
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by zippyonline »

Mpv2k3 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:49 pm
any suggestions?
Open a bleed nipple (with some pipe or something on the end, or even just a rag, just to catch the excess), then press the brake pedal all the way down and keep it down with a block of wood or something. This will then stop fluid dripping out when you then leave the brake line disconnected.

It may be worth disconnecting the brake light switch so your brake lights aren't on constantly when you're doing this.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by ChrisHolmes »

just tightly stretch and bind the finger of a rubber glove over the end of the brake pipe, that will stop it leaking fluid as its not pressurised.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by RenesisRaceBuggy »

If the unions do feel like they're going to round off, just cut the pipe, put a socket on it and then make up new link pipes, often easier than completely destroying the nut.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by Mpv2k3 »

I've still not managed to get around to checking my calipers due to various reasons but a thought crossed my mind today......

If I was to find that one caliper was set up wrong and the cross pipe and bleed valve had to be swapped over..... but, the other caliper was correct.

Am I correct by thinking that it wouldn't work as once you have the pipe and valve swapped and rotated the caliper so that the small pot is at the bottom, the bolt holes for the bracket will be on the wrong side ( facing outwards). #-o

It will only work if both calipers have been set up wrong?...... So you can therefore swap the pipe and valve and then rotate the calipers to the opposite side of the car.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by ChrisHolmes »

I think you summed it up in your last sentence Mark.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by SeriousSam »

Yep, you'll be needing a lefty and a righty. I made this mistake recently when I sent a pair or righties to my painter, and once he'd painted them he realised I didn't have a pair #-o

If you've got a lefty and an upside-down lefty that's been flipped, you'll need to have a chat with Freaky. Although to be fair, if you're not seeing the sort of wear that Ramesh has on your pads, it's likely you've got the right setup.
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by Mpv2k3 »

Knowing my luck with these calipers, mine are probably wrong, although I have been able to check them properly yet.

But looking at some old pictures of worn pads, they do look wedge shaped :shock:

And having a quick look at the nuts for the cross pipes on the calipers, they are quite weathered so may not be possible to change if needed without getting damaged. :shock: :(
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by SeriousSam »

Get yourself some flare nut spanners, they'll give you the best chance of not rounding the nuts off. Good luck!
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by rameshr »

I tried to do the same was not possible to change with the right tools. I sent it to freaky who changed the pipes for me. I am hoping to install these next weekend


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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by Mpv2k3 »

I have flare nut spanners but I previously found that there was not enough clearance for the spanner to engage the nut correctly

Rameshr....... what condition was your cross bar nut in? Were they weathered badly ?
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by rameshr »

Yep only one but I was able to loosen. I would say chat to freaky.


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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by Mpv2k3 »

Although they need a good clean..... least of my worries at the moment with the car.

Here's a pic, you can kind of see how weathered the nuts and bleed valve are....
20190322_152646.jpg
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by rameshr »

Looks the same as mine tbh


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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by CraigS »

Mpv2k3 wrote:Although they need a good clean..... least of my worries at the moment with the car.

Here's a pic, you can kind of see how weathered the nuts and bleed valve are....
20190322_152646.jpg
Are those discs unevenly worn or is it me ??
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by Eddie_r32 »

I think they start life like that
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Re: After track day lots of grinding!

Post by 13Black »

It's normal for the side of the disc that's fixed to the centre bell to be thicker.

It's got to transfer the stopping force of both sides through it, whereas the other side of the disc only has its own side to deal with and send those forces through the casting vents.
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