Fuel Trims
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 28317
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
- Location: Cheltenham
- Has thanked: 2572 times
- Been thanked: 940 times
Fuel Trims
If you look at the Rockingham Track day thread you will see several posts about what happened to my car. viewtopic.php?f=100&t=78021&start=200
The car now idles but its not the smooth 1000rpm that it was before yesterday.
The fuel trims at idle are as in the photos below but I don't know if the variations are normal or not. Also I don't know if the fluctuation is caused by a fuelling issue or an ignition issue so any pointers will be greatly appreciated.
The car now idles but its not the smooth 1000rpm that it was before yesterday.
The fuel trims at idle are as in the photos below but I don't know if the variations are normal or not. Also I don't know if the fluctuation is caused by a fuelling issue or an ignition issue so any pointers will be greatly appreciated.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Rotary History;
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
-
- Spin Doctor
- Posts: 32582
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Lightning Yellow
- Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
- Has thanked: 442 times
- Been thanked: 2087 times
Re: Fuel Trims
Have you checked the air meshes in front of the MAF?(I haven't read the other posts)
- These users thanked the author warpc0il for the post:
- ChrisHolmes (Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:35 pm)
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 28317
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
- Location: Cheltenham
- Has thanked: 2572 times
- Been thanked: 940 times
Re: Fuel Trims
Not checked the meshes. We had the airbox off yesterday and it was dry.
The engine died 3/4 way down the start finish straight and I pout it down to fuel starvation, even though that has not happened since I upgraded to an S2 pump about 2 years ago! I finished the lap and went into the pits for fuel and when the engine revs dropped to idle the engine would go rough and stall. Upon trying to start it just spin and spun with little kicks and eventually would run at very low revs as if on one cylinder and then with a little throttle would gradually build revs and run smoothly right up to the red line.
We swapped the plug leads round and it started a bit better but still would not idle smoothly and sounded really bad but then sounded normal when revved so we eliminated anything mechanical having failed.
When started this morning it was slow then we drove immediately back to Cheltenham on the motorway with the engine sounding and pulling normally. Once home I let the revs drop as normal to idle and the engine kept running but the revs fluctuated slightly but not in a consistent way. Sometimes rising to 1100 then falling back to under 1000.
I have my old OEM coils back which I will swap in tomorrow to see if that makes any difference and will of course check the meshes etc: whilst doing that.
The engine died 3/4 way down the start finish straight and I pout it down to fuel starvation, even though that has not happened since I upgraded to an S2 pump about 2 years ago! I finished the lap and went into the pits for fuel and when the engine revs dropped to idle the engine would go rough and stall. Upon trying to start it just spin and spun with little kicks and eventually would run at very low revs as if on one cylinder and then with a little throttle would gradually build revs and run smoothly right up to the red line.
We swapped the plug leads round and it started a bit better but still would not idle smoothly and sounded really bad but then sounded normal when revved so we eliminated anything mechanical having failed.
When started this morning it was slow then we drove immediately back to Cheltenham on the motorway with the engine sounding and pulling normally. Once home I let the revs drop as normal to idle and the engine kept running but the revs fluctuated slightly but not in a consistent way. Sometimes rising to 1100 then falling back to under 1000.
I have my old OEM coils back which I will swap in tomorrow to see if that makes any difference and will of course check the meshes etc: whilst doing that.
Rotary History;
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
-
- Former Member
- Posts: 3835
- Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:17 pm
- RX-8: R3
- Colour: Sparkling Black
- Location: Nottingham
- Has thanked: 41 times
- Been thanked: 109 times
Re: Fuel Trims
The MAF seems to be showing a higher reading than normal for idle - it's usually about 5g/s I believe
The elevated fuel trims show extra fuel being added - perhaps to compensate for an airleak
The elevated fuel trims show extra fuel being added - perhaps to compensate for an airleak
- These users thanked the author SeeJay for the post:
- ChrisHolmes (Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:35 pm)
2008 Sparkling Black R3 ●Japspeed Sportcat & Toyo Catback ● Drilled/grooved discs ● Simota Induction Kit ● D585 Coils ● Braided S/S lines ● Polished Engine Bay ● DRL's ● 2011 Spec Gearbox ●LED Side & fogs ● Calibre GT-R rims ● Michelin Pilot Sport 3 255/35 19 ● Nissan GTR spoiler ● RacingBeat ARB's ● Tein coilovers ● BHR motor mounts ● Amemiya Grille ● CL RC5 pads
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 9:09 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Strato Blue
- Location: Northants
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 328 times
Re: Fuel Trims
I'd agree
sounds like a vacuum / airleak to me
if you spray some lighter gas / brake cleaner around all the rubber hoses / possible leak paths with the engine running and listen for it revving up then you've found your leak
sounds like a vacuum / airleak to me
if you spray some lighter gas / brake cleaner around all the rubber hoses / possible leak paths with the engine running and listen for it revving up then you've found your leak
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 28317
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
- Location: Cheltenham
- Has thanked: 2572 times
- Been thanked: 940 times
Re: Fuel Trims
Hmm! I may have disturbed or broken something when I removed the airbox to get at the coils.
Rotary History;
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 3248
- Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 1:49 am
- RX-8: Import
- Colour: Black Cherry
- Location: Peterborough
- Has thanked: 8 times
- Been thanked: 119 times
Re: Fuel Trims
Eccentric shaft position sensor been knocked?
Disclaimer - I am 100% clutching at straws and have no idea of the symptoms of this.
Disclaimer - I am 100% clutching at straws and have no idea of the symptoms of this.
Black Cherry Mica
JDM Evolve. 192 6 spd manual from auto
I can explain it, but I can't understand it for you.
JDM Evolve. 192 6 spd manual from auto
I can explain it, but I can't understand it for you.
-
- Spin Doctor
- Posts: 32582
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Lightning Yellow
- Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
- Has thanked: 442 times
- Been thanked: 2087 times
Re: Fuel Trims
There was no mention of the EML flashing, otherwise I would have been all over the ESS - either the sensor itself, or the wires, or something magnetic stuck to it.
The problem could still be the latter, especially as there's often a lot of metallic debris around a track and the higher speeds often create strange airflows under the car, that could suck something up the front of the engine.
The problem could still be the latter, especially as there's often a lot of metallic debris around a track and the higher speeds often create strange airflows under the car, that could suck something up the front of the engine.
-
- Former Member
- Posts: 10000
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:48 pm
- Location: Fantasy land
- Has thanked: 93 times
- Been thanked: 165 times
Re: Fuel Trims
Chris
Do you have a catch can fitted and is it more full of oil than normal?
Do you have a catch can fitted and is it more full of oil than normal?
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence " Carl Sagan.
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 28317
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
- Location: Cheltenham
- Has thanked: 2572 times
- Been thanked: 940 times
Re: Fuel Trims
All sorted engine now idles smoothly, starts straight away hot (after 15 minutes) or cold.
Solution was to remove the D585s and fit my old origin unknown coils!
Clearly one of the plugs on the rear rotor, 3rd from left, was not firing, see photo.
@Dave I have had no flashing EML or any codes appear when the car faltered yesterday.
@Graham I don't have a catch tank and have never had an oil burp. The bellows of my inlet is virtually dry.
Solution was to remove the D585s and fit my old origin unknown coils!
Clearly one of the plugs on the rear rotor, 3rd from left, was not firing, see photo.
@Dave I have had no flashing EML or any codes appear when the car faltered yesterday.
@Graham I don't have a catch tank and have never had an oil burp. The bellows of my inlet is virtually dry.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- These users thanked the author ChrisHolmes for the post:
- BigPete (Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:58 pm)
Rotary History;
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
-
- Spin Doctor
- Posts: 32582
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Lightning Yellow
- Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
- Has thanked: 442 times
- Been thanked: 2087 times
Re: Fuel Trims
Have those plugs been recently "cleaned"?
Cleaning rotary plugs, either with a sandblaster, wire brush or sandpaper is a big no-no.
The plating of the metal surfaces is critical to preventing corrosion while the surface of the centre electrode insulator is engineered to prevent "tracking"; any mechanical cleaning will damage these surfaces and cause ongoing issues.
@Chris if your plugs were just changed recently and had not been "cleaned" then please take the above just as advice.
Plugs can be "cleaned" by soaking in Seafoam or Cataclean and scrubbing with a soft (e.g. tooth) brush, but don't be surprised if the brush handle melts.
Cleaning rotary plugs, either with a sandblaster, wire brush or sandpaper is a big no-no.
The plating of the metal surfaces is critical to preventing corrosion while the surface of the centre electrode insulator is engineered to prevent "tracking"; any mechanical cleaning will damage these surfaces and cause ongoing issues.
@Chris if your plugs were just changed recently and had not been "cleaned" then please take the above just as advice.
Plugs can be "cleaned" by soaking in Seafoam or Cataclean and scrubbing with a soft (e.g. tooth) brush, but don't be surprised if the brush handle melts.
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 28317
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
- Location: Cheltenham
- Has thanked: 2572 times
- Been thanked: 940 times
Re: Fuel Trims
They are new plugs fitted probably around 1000 miles ago. I appreciate the detail regarding how traditional plug cleaning damages the plugs.
Rotary History;
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 9:09 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Strato Blue
- Location: Northants
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 328 times
Re: Fuel Trims
So this is another failure of D585's then
seems to be catching, are you going to go for some of the new rotary rev's 'big' coils?
seems to be catching, are you going to go for some of the new rotary rev's 'big' coils?
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 28317
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
- Location: Cheltenham
- Has thanked: 2572 times
- Been thanked: 940 times
Re: Fuel Trims
I presume you mean Ryan Rotary Performance. Depends on the result of the tests on my coils
- These users thanked the author ChrisHolmes for the post:
- BigPete (Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:58 pm)
Rotary History;
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 5942
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:20 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Custom
- Location: Boston Lincs PE20 2NZ
- Has thanked: 174 times
- Been thanked: 174 times
Re: Fuel Trims
Well at least it’s an easy fix hey Chris
- These users thanked the author BigPete for the post:
- ChrisHolmes (Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:03 pm)
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 28317
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
- Location: Cheltenham
- Has thanked: 2572 times
- Been thanked: 940 times
Re: Fuel Trims
Certainly hope so Pete. Compressions seem to be through the floor though so its not all good news at the moment.
Rotary History;
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 5942
- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:20 pm
- RX-8: 231
- Colour: Custom
- Location: Boston Lincs PE20 2NZ
- Has thanked: 174 times
- Been thanked: 174 times
Re: Fuel Trims
Um strange but may be nothing as it starts fine. Mine is now in bits and looks fooked
- These users thanked the author BigPete for the post:
- ChrisHolmes (Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:23 pm)