Coils

Place for discussions about the RX-8
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »

At the moment theres no proven coil better than the C-REV coils with the field time, but theres always something round the corner! Too much money as well for a red counter stuck on the top! They do have an output chart, which looks great, but we can all talk bull if we have too i supose.

Whats the weight of a OEM C-Rev coil????

I've up dated my comment as on reading did come over as a bit harsh!!!!
Last edited by RobinPZ72 on Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Ryan Rotary Performance
Former Trader
Former Trader
Posts: 1616
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:06 pm
RX-8: Supercharged
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Rugby and Stonham Aspal
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 153 times

Re: Coils

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance »

RobinPZ72 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:48 pm
At the moment NO nothing better than the C-REV coils, but theres always something round the corner! Too much money as well for a red counter stuck on the top! They do have an output chart, which looks great, but we can all talk bull if we have too i supose.

Whats the weight of a OEM C-Rev coil????
Is that a fact!?!?

Would love to hear the criteria and research in coming to this conclusion.
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »

Steady Carl, but we are aloud to disagree and until you've managed to sell as many units as the C or even the B rev there can't be a comparison!
PeteH
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 5849
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:26 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Custom
Location: West Sussex
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 367 times

Re: Coils

Post by PeteH »

I think Carl's point is valid. You made a direct statement of fact, but without supporting it at all. Carl has spent a huge amount of money developing his unique coils. He knows his product, and he knows the Mazda product. If you state that RRP's coils are definitely inferior then you need to say why. If your argument is simply that RRP's coils are, as yet, unproven in the market place, and too early to the market to be sure of their long term performance, then that's a different point. Carl is confident of his product, following considerable design and development, specifically on RX-8s (not small block Chevies!), and I know his coils have done many thousands of development miles. Any product that is new to the market is, by definition, unproven in the market place, but I do think these coils are as "safe" a bet as any product can be, and certainly don't deserve to be dismissed.

(You can send the tenner to the usual address Carl :thumright: )
These users thanked the author PeteH for the post:
Ryan Rotary Performance (Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:01 pm)
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »

No for one I don’t have to say anything as the is a club forum! yes Carl has spent lots of time and money and if you read the posts previous, I have never said anything bad about Carls coils, so lets not be super critical here and if anything I think I’ve even said I’d hopefully get some, but not after this reaction, which frankly I don’t care for!

Yes, I have had several discussions on coils with others, however that’s not on here! It does seem we can’t say anything different on here either, which is sad!
PeteH
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 5849
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:26 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Custom
Location: West Sussex
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 367 times

Re: Coils

Post by PeteH »

You can say what you like (within reason). No one's moderated your comments, or reported your post. If you want to make statements of fact then you have to be able to back them up, or get challenged. :thumright:
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »

I'm sure you'll understand a forum isn’t the most sensible place for stating facts!
OK where is the proof of the Carls coils being better?
If the test has been carried out with all the coils to prove this where is it!
The test can’t be carried out with anyone with an interest of the product or any attachment! Testing to be done with all coils being in a new state and the same car on the same day with controlled protocols and rest time between testing programme!
We seem to be very bold on the next best thing and people should look back about the D585’s , which were the NUTS!

It’s great to have a forum with guys like Carl who's obviously passionate about his work and he should be as he’s got some cool things and what looks like hard as hell work to get where he is!
I email those guys about those plasma coils and they got back very quickly, which it was nice to see great customer services! Holly poop anyone want to be an importer FFS!
User avatar
Ryan Rotary Performance
Former Trader
Former Trader
Posts: 1616
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:06 pm
RX-8: Supercharged
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Rugby and Stonham Aspal
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 153 times

Re: Coils

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance »

RobinPZ72 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:54 pm
I'm sure you'll understand a forum isn’t the most sensible place for stating facts!
OK where is the proof of the Carls coils being better?
If the test has been carried out with all the coils to prove this where is it!
The test can’t be carried out with anyone with an interest of the product or any attachment! Testing to be done with all coils being in a new state and the same car on the same day with controlled protocols and rest time between testing programme!
We seem to be very bold on the next best thing and people should look back about the D585’s , which where the NUTS!

From your rationale, no aftermarket coil could be better than Mazda OE coils as we simply just cannot sell enough, the idea that I have to sell as many as Mazda to even be considered as a comparable product is unfounded and to me at least does not make sense.

My coils have been tested for output, obviously by the factory that manufactures them, the specifications are on my website for all to see. I've also tested them for over 5000 miles on the platform they were designed for, stressing the coils over and above their specified rating. Still no failure, the original Mazda coils were failing at this point.

OE coils specifications are well known and my coils output pretty much double what they do in terms of spark energy. It's arguable whether this is required but this is a fact.

As for independent testing I have offered Phil Bate (a long standing well respected member) a set FOC to do a full independent test and review. He has accepted to do this but unable for another month or so.

Finally, if you are going to make a statement (yours was a statement) then all I'm asking is how you came to this conclusion, I'm willing and open to hear and then accept your findings if they are on sound footing.
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »

How many miles does it take for a Std C-rev coil to fail?

I think we've all made statements about other products, which are unfair, but the best thing for you is to shut the sceptics up and push on!

Hey I’ve gave up on the motorbike coils total dead end and it would mean a stupide harness adapter!

Is Phil Bates doing others that would be cool?

Was the failing coils new like yours?
Last edited by RobinPZ72 on Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
New Duke
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:38 pm
RX-8: R3
Colour: Sparkling Black
Location: Colchester, Essex
Has thanked: 691 times
Been thanked: 558 times

Re: Coils

Post by New Duke »

I don't think it matters how many miles a C coil might last. The point is that they don't have a lifetime guarantee.

I run Mazda C coils (RRP's new ones weren't available at the time) and come replacement time my options appear to be:
-Paying more for new C coils with a known shelf life
-Paying more for 585 variant coils which need a custom fitting/may have a guarantee but sometimes fail/need mapping to get the best out of them.
-Paying less for coils designed for my car that fit natively, from a local (to me) manufacturer that I trust, with a lifetime guarantee (so who cares if one fails).

It's a non-debate on coils now as far as I can tell. RRP have cornered/undercut the market unless some flaw or weakness is exposed.

And those eye wateringly priced coils linked earlier... I hope nobody ever wasted their money on them. :shock:
These users thanked the author New Duke for the post:
Ryan Rotary Performance (Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:16 pm)
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »

Yeah mad money!!!! but if you become a seller its free shipping FFs

There fitting instructions are worth it!!!!!!

Just looked at the D585's they don't need a Map and are plug and play! ok got a stupid harness, but for a NA car they give all the bang needed! With an option to tweak if you’re going down the forced route!
Can someone tell me how some D585's are very reliable and have no real fails and there’s some that are really bad! Is there cheap version out there that might be used to make money for the greater good!
If a coil fails and kills your motor does that get fixed too?

Now cheap and if they work then https://www.surefireonline.co.uk/MAZDA- ... x8-blk.htm

These are the bad boys I was given (I thought they were NGK), but remain on the fish tank! Has anyone measured how heavy the oem ones are?? The 4 I have all come in at 175g, which quality control can't be that bad! Ok 1 is 0.1g lighter and 1 is 0.2g heavier!

I all most went for these cause of the colour http://napolperformance.com/04-11-mazda ... e-set.html

So lots of coil manufacturers that seem to know a thing or two sticking to std shape ! Now would we call them fake as they look like the original? It's seems if it's cheaper it's not good, which tends to be the case the majority of the time! If other manufacturers make what's the original manufacturer makes, but at a cheaper cost is this always bad?
User avatar
Ryan Rotary Performance
Former Trader
Former Trader
Posts: 1616
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:06 pm
RX-8: Supercharged
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Rugby and Stonham Aspal
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 153 times

Re: Coils

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance »

Some pictures and weights of OEM Vs RRP as requested earlier in this thread.
_BEFOREAFTER-2018118125435.JPG
PSX_20181208_125217.jpg
Weights
PSX_20181208_1253232.jpg
PSX_20181208_1253235.jpg
the RRP Complete Kit with MSD's


PSX_20181208_124845.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »

They are smart and look bloody well made!

Looks like those i have are missing something and will probably stay on the fish tank!

Now and I know I write badly, but that's me so sadly can't change that! Would it not be a good idea to try and get our hands on some of these other coils and do a group test?
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Coils

Post by warpc0il »

Why, especially as they don't even come with a warranty?
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
User avatar
13Black
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 4726
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:14 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Leicestershire
Has thanked: 265 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: Coils

Post by 13Black »

At nearly 15 years on the market, I think if there were a cheap coil (and trust me, many cheap coils have been purchased in that time) that performed well, then I would have thought that they'd be the talk of the town.

Or are we assuming we've just been sat here arguing about oil all this time and not tried to saved each other tens of thousands of collective pounds :/
-= Rotormelon Money Pit Build of Tasteless Questionable Bodgery =-
Experimelon 183whp rebuild | Rotary Revs D585s | PZ Suspension | Hawk & Yellowstuff pads | Extra steering lock | Custom exhaust | Added rearward flames of glory | Unnecessarily repurposed ball gags
-= Clicky click for build thread =-
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »

Dave what doesn't come with a warranty? those yellow ones have 5yrs warranty!!
Last edited by RobinPZ72 on Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »

Now lets not get the oil thing going please!

To be honest ive now clue what everyones been doing over the last 15yrs as I'm new here and that might be the problem as I'm asking crap that was asked a long time ago! A bit like a driver sitting behind a learner.
Last edited by RobinPZ72 on Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
New Duke
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:38 pm
RX-8: R3
Colour: Sparkling Black
Location: Colchester, Essex
Has thanked: 691 times
Been thanked: 558 times

Re: Coils

Post by New Duke »

Well that has me convinced. You should buy some immediately and upload your pics of them fitted here. Increased HP and reduced fuel consumption? Makes perfect sense.
Maybe set up a group buy?!!!!


(I'd love to see the customs charge on those)
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »

Naw to be honest Ive got a set coils, but hey has anyone tried them????? If not its not a bit rude to say there sh*t and like he said theyve been on the go for 15yrs ok 9yrs for him!

Hey if I had the money I'd buy them to see for myself, but i haven't
User avatar
boosted
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 3153
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:32 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Aurora Blue Mica
Location: Westbury Wilts
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Re: Coils

Post by boosted »

Ref oem coils jdm monitoring.

When i installed the bridgeport engine i bought rev C coils and after the rewire and on firing up i had no rpm displayed on my digidash.
I thought i had a bad connection but continuity test good. Basically taking a feed from the positive coil trigger to the digi dash...
Much head scratching i put the original NGK coil inplace of the rev c on the 1 with the feed to digidash and works.
Well this is simple wiring a positive trigger to fire the coil...but on the gen mazda 1s something is happening to trigger voltage.
I have too run 3 rev cs and 1 ngk on front trailering...theres summit in the oem coils....

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

231 streetported Rx8 renny powered Westfield kit race car. SOLD
92 Rx7 fd3s stock twins..est.320bhp. RETIRED Track car.
93 eunos s-sp 1.6 turbo gt2545r 226bhp track slag. in continuous development.
Scooby doo bugeye wagon wrx daily.
Mondeodog towcar.
Mx5 mk2 1.8 10ae nice day daily rust bucket.
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »

Apparently it’s easy to spot, but you must have genuine coils to deconstruct, which is more difficult to get than most would think! I think my B Rev coils in my car are genuine, so I’m going to take the worst one apart when I get around to replace them! I’ve ripped several apart and found nothing! My old track coach is a clever old git and knowns lots about sparky things, but shares nothing if it gets a bite!
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »

These users thanked the author RobinPZ72 for the post:
warpc0il (Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:50 pm)
User avatar
Lemon
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 2688
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:08 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Winning Blue
Location: Wiltshire
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: Coils

Post by Lemon »

just need the other coil and plug and you can do it again in stereo :D
Thanks, Stu

Mad as anything
RobinPZ72
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Coils

Post by RobinPZ72 »



carnut1974
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:05 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Strato Blue
Location: Wales
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Coils

Post by carnut1974 »

PeteH wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:04 pm
I find this interesting. I can understand why JDM cars would be able to detect coil failure or swapped coils, because the Japanese regulations are so tight with regards to modifications, MOTs (whatever they are called), and emmisions. What I don't understand is, having gone to all the trouble of programming the PCM to do this, why then create a second programme specifically not to do this?

Did they really give the rest of the World the chance to mess about with coils just... because...? The consequence of that decision is so many misfiring destroyed engines. :( . The second consequence is that Mazda have missed out on thousands of replacement coil sales, because we all buy non-Mazda. Or were Mazda worried about the RX-8 getting a reputation for throwing CELs every 30k miles, so they just disabled the warning?

Do JDM cars have a better reliability record due to their owners getting a CEL every few years to tell them their coils need changing?

The whole thing makes little sense to me.
Hi Pete,

All vehicle manufacturers build their vehicles specific to each market.
It’s normal practice.
I worked for Jaguar Land Rover for a short period.
You have European market, Asia Pacific, North America, South America, Middle East, China, etc

Fact is it’s all down to local government emission requirements, safety requirements, road tax system requirements, consumer demands in the area.

For instance - all cars built for China have very little emission restriction measures compared to a UK spec car. And likewise a North American spec vehicle will have tighter emissions than a UK vehicle.

The cost to make a vehicle produce lower emissions is always going to be an additional cost.
So why produce these more costly spec cars for a market that does not require it? Save money building = lower price to the consumer or higher profit for the manufacturer.

Each market consumer also has its own cultural consumer needs. What Japanese consumers want on a car is very different to what we want in the UK. And what we want in the UK is very different to what they want in South Africa or North America.

So it’s down to local Market government regs relating to emissions, safety etc and the. Market research to consumer requirements regarding trim spec or performance etc.

So the basic conclusions is Yes manufacturers really do build vehicle to varying specification for different areas of the world.

They spend where they have to and where they can cut back costs - they do.

The emissions regulations at the time for RX8 in Japan May have been very stringent and so the engine management system had to be robust at notifying the owner as soon as there was a fault occurring.
In the UK at the time of production we were not so fussy. So if you are build tens of thousands of vehicles and you have an opportunity to save a few pence - (or the equivalent in Yen), then dropping spec for builds outside of Japan, - will save you tens of thousands maybe millions - depending on your total end output.

I have seen this happen with the Jaguar X Type. Jaguar deleted the, engine bay engine insulation,and a carpet trim in the trunk in a cost cutting exercise to try and redeem profit loss.

The wonderful world of economics. Profit & Loss management.
231, upgraded starter motor, Toyo Sport cat back exhaust, stock cat, stock engine. Running 10/40 oil and now premix with Castrol Power 1 Racing 2T fully synthetic two stroke oil. Long term gains or improvements to be monitored.