Coils

[warpc0il]

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=51334

[RobinPZ72]

https://black-halo-racing.myshopify.com ... on-upgrade

[acegeezer]

^^^ Basically D585's and the "bad boys" you display will invariably be fakes

[warpc0il]

ATTENTION: This product has been discontinued as Black Halo Racing will soon be releasing a proprietary/globally-compliant performance ignition coil for all models of the Mazda RX-8, including those in the Asian/JDM markets.
Please do not attempt to place an order as the final pricing is yet to be determined.

These won't be D585's as the JDM PCM won't operate with coils that have measurably different electrical characteristics to the Mazda OEM.

[RobinPZ72]

I think its a new product away from the D585's due to the probs they are having! From what i can see BHR are fairly clued up too! oh i need that header!!!!!!

Hey those coils are not Mazda OME, but are the NGK version, howerver i still wouldnt just test them on a car without testing them!

[Ryan Rotary Performance]

ATTENTION: This product has been discontinued as Black Halo Racing will soon be releasing a proprietary/globally-compliant performance ignition coil for all models of the Mazda RX-8, including those in the Asian/JDM markets.
Please do not attempt to place an order as the final pricing is yet to be determined.

These won't be D585's as the JDM PCM won't operate with coils that have measurably different electrical characteristics to the Mazda OEM.

I've been able to map out the codes on a couple of Asian JDM cars now, not sure if this is the same across the board but it can be done on some.

[warpc0il]

Being able to map out the code on the PCM is a mixed blessing.

While it could allow for the use of coils with different characteristics, it also means that you lose early indication of coil failures.

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk

[RobinPZ72]

Yep they are D585's 1st and 2nd windings, but OME fittings etc.

[Ryan Rotary Performance]

Yep they are D585's 1st and 2nd windings, but OME fittings etc.

So will still require a remap for the coils dwell.

[RobinPZ72]

Yep they are D585's 1st and 2nd windings, but OME fittings etc.

So will still require a remap for the coils dwell.

Apparently not, but has the capacity for re-mapping for adaptations later! I think getting rid of the harness adapter is a good thing though!

With you a BHR making dedicated coils for the RX8 can only be good for business, car and the owners!

Robin

[Ryan Rotary Performance]

Yep they are D585's 1st and 2nd windings, but OME fittings etc.

So will still require a remap for the coils dwell.

Apparently not, but has the capacity for re-mapping for adaptations later! I think getting rid of the harness adapter is a good thing though!

With you a BHR making dedicated coils for the RX8 can only be good for business, car and the owners!

Robin

Definitely good for my business when you look at the eye watering price of the BHR systems.

[RobinPZ72]

Let me know if you still need drawing done as engine all stripped and cleaned ready for copying! Got kind off caught up with housing profile, but that's nailed now!

Robin

[13Black]

While it could allow for the use of coils with different characteristics, it also means that you lose early indication of coil failures.

I've seen enough D585s that have failed with the PCM being totally unaware of it that I think this is somewhat moot.

[warpc0il]

Our PCMs can't monitor the coil state but the JDM PCMs do, that's why they don't like non-OEM coils.

[RobinPZ72]

There must be a reason for them not liking non oem coils then? It can’t be the harness as a wire isn’t smart, but if the quality is poor at plug connections maybe would cause it! However Carl and BHR have remove the harness, so are they both compliant now? From what I’ve heard the BHR is plug and play with no errors and no remap, but its all good if you have already remapped to the old version, so no need to go back!

[warpc0il]

The oem coils have a specific resistance and other electrical characteristics that the JDM PCM can monitor and then trigger a CEL if they fall out of the expected range.

The JDM loom is also different but I'm not sure if this is significant for the coil monitoring.

Anyway a JDM car will trigger the CEL if either an original coil starts to fail or is replaced with a non-original coil, which has different electrical characteristics.

It's a bit like printers complaining when you fit non-original cartridges.

UK, European and US market cars don't have this feature, so they can't tell if the original coils are dying or if non-original coils are fitted.

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[RobinPZ72]

Aw I hate electronics!
I worked on control panels for a nuclear power station and sourcing components that complied was a total nightmare I had to get my iso9001 cert along with others! That in it self was a nightmare due to how dum dums brain works!
You could get 2 identical relays, but from a different manufacture and the control test would spit its dummy out! Then the fitters would have to trace it and replace! These control panels were massive and we could only do 2 at a time in out unit and it wasn’t the smallest either!

So is Carls or BHR compatible cause it would be a massive selling point!

[PeteH]

I find this interesting. I can understand why JDM cars would be able to detect coil failure or swapped coils, because the Japanese regulations are so tight with regards to modifications, MOTs (whatever they are called), and emmisions. What I don't understand is, having gone to all the trouble of programming the PCM to do this, why then create a second programme specifically not to do this?

Did they really give the rest of the World the chance to mess about with coils just... because...? The consequence of that decision is so many misfiring destroyed engines. . The second consequence is that Mazda have missed out on thousands of replacement coil sales, because we all buy non-Mazda. Or were Mazda worried about the RX-8 getting a reputation for throwing CELs every 30k miles, so they just disabled the warning?

Do JDM cars have a better reliability record due to their owners getting a CEL every few years to tell them their coils need changing?

The whole thing makes little sense to me.

[13Black]

They changed a few things on the JDM version that don't seem to make sense. Almost as if they gave each market their own departmelon and build them in the same time frame.
'Oh you've done it that way, we did it this way... cool, on the container they go'

[Dr. FrankenRex]

What nick said... I mean, why no powerfold mirrors, cruise control and such things? It just seems like random choices... So many car owners of the period bought things like powerfold mirrors on other cars for a tidy penny, so why did Mazda decide not to offer it outside of Japan?

[RobinPZ72]

To be honest it would be interesting to find out about if they have a better record and why they went to the hassle changing the PCM! Would it not be better to have a coil that didn’t through up errors whether it being JDM or not? With all the damage they can do I’d be more likely get a coil that was JDM complainant even if my cars PCM couldn’t read the failure!

[RobinPZ72]

https://www.vividracing.com/ignition-pr ... 29674.html

[warpc0il]

$800????

That's before shipping, insurance, import duty and VAT.

The total has got to be more than the book value of my car

But they do look

[RobinPZ72]

Yes they do! Hey the exhaust system is nice too!

[PeteH]

This is an actual picture of the RX8 Okada coils:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OKADA-PLASMA ... 0510718256

They appear to be the same size as stock coils. I therefore wonder if they can be functionally very different. It an awfully expensive experiment to fit these. Personally, I think we have a far better option in the UK with the RRP coils.....

Also note that Okada provide no tuning information at all. These are just meant to be "plug and play" replacements. That may be a good thing for many people, but it makes me wonder if they can really be better than Mazda coils.