How many left?

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PeteH
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How many left?

Post by PeteH »

The attached spreadsheet shows the total number of UK RX-8s registered and SORNed, broken down by model and year.
RX-8_UK_Numbers.xlsx
The headlines are:
- 24,730 individual cars have been registered between 2003 and 2018
- 13,289 still exist
- 8,092 are still on the road
- 11,440 are missing, presumed scrapped

The cross-over year was 2016, when more RX-8s were in the scrap yard than were still on the road. :(
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GreySilver Beast (Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:00 pm)
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Re: How many left?

Post by kopite72 »

Yeah not looking good,ten years from now IMO you'll barely see any on the roads anymore.In the four and a bit years I've owned mine it's gone from seeing a few about the place to not seeing any at all.

Granted Ireland is a small market for 8's but I literally have seen one in the past two years or so apart from meets.whats even more worrying is that the specialists will have to start diversifying if they want to survive because there simply won't be enough work for them all to survive.

I'll bet if you ask Ben and any other top specialist they are already thinking about it whether that means moving in to other markets to get work or in Ben's case maybe ramping up his dyno business to include top end marques to supplement his business so that it's commercially viable when the rotary work starts to dry up because it will eventually.

I'm sure they all have contingency plans in place to address this when the time comes but it's a tad sad to think that the 8's are dying a slow death....
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Re: How many left?

Post by warpc0il »

Many of the "missing" will have been exported to Ireland, France, Spain etc etc

The data for Northern Ireland wasn't included until recently, which means that cars originally registered here have "magically" appeared since the DVLA took over. However, cars that were originally registered in Britain, then brought over to NI, disappeared for a few years, before reappearing again.

Private imports (mostly JDM) will also have been added over time.
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Re: How many left?

Post by PeteH »

Just to make you feel even better Ian, when you plot the stats on a graph you find that by 2026 it is likely that very few RX-8s will still exist. In reality there will always be some that are preserved, but after 2026 we are likely to be down to a few hundred at most.
How Many.jpg
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kopite72 (Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:45 pm)
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Re: How many left?

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance »

kopite72 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:45 pm
Yeah not looking good,ten years from now IMO you'll barely see any on the roads anymore.In the four and a bit years I've owned mine it's gone from seeing a few about the place to not seeing any at all.

Granted Ireland is a small market for 8's but I literally have seen one in the past two years or so apart from meets.whats even more worrying is that the specialists will have to start diversifying if they want to survive because there simply won't be enough work for them all to survive.

I'll bet if you ask Ben and any other top specialist they are already thinking about it whether that means moving in to other markets to get work or in Ben's case maybe ramping up his dyno business to include top end marques to supplement his business so that it's commercially viable when the rotary work starts to dry up because it will eventually.

I'm sure they all have contingency plans in place to address this when the time comes but it's a tad sad to think that the 8's are dying a slow death....
As long as their is a market companies will invest, but in order to do we all need support, hopefully this great club will be long standing to support those companies investing in this great car!

To date we have invested/investing in:

Bespoke Rx8 Coils: You dont really want to know how much we have invested in this project but its not far off 5 figures!
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Rx8 Supercharger Kit This is quite a big project, probably out next year.
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so what I'm really saying is keep supporting us and we'll keep investing in great new products! :)
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Re: How many left?

Post by kopite72 »

@pete, yeah depressing reading that but it's going to be a reality unfortunately.

@Carl, whilst I commend the work and research you do Carl if the cars simply don't exist then there's going to be little or no demand for products and services that you and other fine specialists supply.

It's just simple economics which is why I can see the likes of you, RR, LC and Essex rotary diversifying. Love to hear Ben's thoughts on this, if you're reading this Ben chime in ;)
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Re: How many left?

Post by Eddie_r32 »

kopite72 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:44 pm
@pete, yeah depressing reading that but it's going to be a reality unfortunately.

@Carl, whilst I commend the work and research you do Carl if the cars simply don't exist then there's going to be little or no demand for products and services that you and other fine specialists supply.

It's just simple economics which is why I can see the likes of you, RR, LC and Essex rotary diversifying. Love to hear Ben's thoughts on this, if you're reading this Ben chime in ;)
When a car becomes rare they start to become owned by enthusiasts, enthusiasts spend money on their cars, in theory the companies who are investing and developing products will stick around, if you look at s bodies, they are all enthusiast owned now and people spend good money on their cars, it's not just a Chinese fmic and Bren valve anymore
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Re: How many left?

Post by kopite72 »

That's all well and good but the point I'm making is that there will be simply not enough cars therefore not enough work to go around.Rare is not good news for specialists all vying for the same business,it simply doesn't work.

As these cars become rarer the enthuaists that own them will garage them for large parts of the year.I'll be doing it once she's a second car for me so apart from routine maintenance I won't be doing anything special with it unless I decide to get her rebuilt and maybe a few other bits and bobs over time so if a lot of enthuaists and or collectors are doing the same then its not really good news for specialists hence why I think you'll see them diversify
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Re: How many left?

Post by geofftl1000r »

With most cars, as the supply of OEM parts dry up the 3rd party suppliers take over, making a piston for one car is pretty similar to making one for another. Whilst nice CNC bits look pretty, it's the bits that make the car go that will keep enthusiasts interested in these cars.
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Re: How many left?

Post by warpc0il »

I've got a 1968 Alfa Romeo, which I've owned since 1979.

For the first few years it was a "slightly older" car but service parts and other spares were listed from mainstream suppliers.
After another ten years (~1990) it became increasingly difficult to obtain even the simplest spares, relying on specialist suppliers, with some trim/rubber parts being impossible to source at all.
Another ten years (~2000) and the list of unobtainium parts is getting longer. including body panels, suspension and engine parts that weren't common with the later models.
However, by 2010 more parts were available than had been for the previous 20 years, due to a number of factors;
- the car is now recognised as a collectable classic and people are even rebuilding barn finds, which means there's a market for new replacement parts.
- the classic car market is a much better investment than stocks & shares or even property.
- the internet means that the market is global, such that a production run of 20-50 units isn't just reliant on the potential purchasers in that country.
- the tooling for small-scale manufacturing has become much cheaper, including CAD/CAM and 3D printing.
- the recession meant that a lot of well established Alfa Romeo dealerships went bust, or downsized, or moved to cheaper out-of-town premises, all of which meant that their old stock that had been gathering dust for 30+ years was suddenly appearing on the market.

I'm sure I read somewhere that there are now more Spitfire aircraft in airworthy condition than there have been at any time since so many got destroyed during the filming of The Battle of Britain film, back in 1969.
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Re: How many left?

Post by Vian »

kopite72 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:44 pm
That's all well and good but the point I'm making is that there will be simply not enough cars therefore not enough work to go around.Rare is not good news for specialists all vying for the same business,it simply doesn't work.

As these cars become rarer the enthuaists that own them will garage them for large parts of the year.I'll be doing it once she's a second car for me so apart from routine maintenance I won't be doing anything special with it unless I decide to get her rebuilt and maybe a few other bits and bobs over time so if a lot of enthuaists and or collectors are doing the same then its not really good news for specialists hence why I think you'll see them diversify
Each one I've spoken to has already started to diversify. It's just good sense and anyone not doing so doesn't deserve to be in business in a few years. They'll likely still do the rotary stuff as well, partly because as numbers fall the marginal profit on each customer really ought to rise quite substantially. Those of us still around in a decade with the cars are likely to find maintenance costs rising significantly.
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Re: How many left?

Post by Nerdstrike »

I observe that the gradient of purchases is much steeper than the abandoned cars rate. This adds credence to huge variability of compression failure. I half expected one to shadow the other. There are more RX8s still roadworthy than there are GT86s!
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Re: How many left?

Post by kopite72 »

Depends on what you define as roadworthy.I'd suspect alot of them aren't too far off a rebuild with a lot of the owners being oblivious as to what lies ahead in the not too distant future...
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Re: How many left?

Post by jondkent »

I have often wondered about this. I'm lucky at the moment as I have MRS on my doorstep, LC 30 mins away and Essex Rotary not much further. I could even factor in RRP, as they are only 2 hours away. Does seem that the South East and East is well covered which make me slightly concerned for the future.

And unlike most car mainstream owners we tend to service our cars ourselves, so that looses them that possible cash flow. Must still be money in this game though to have so many.


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How many left

Post by EdwardLet »

Do we have any idea how many 1s are actually left in the world?? seem to be a fair few breaking etc. Maybe we should start a register to get an idea
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Re: How many left?

Post by wjb »

When I bought my PZ in 2016 there were 180+ to choose from on autotrader.

There are only 46 for sale on there today...
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Re: How many left?

Post by akhan48 »

Another issue I've just personally faced is if you get into an accident, the insurance company want to write off the car immediately without even seeing the damage! I had an accident 2 weeks ago, called up to report, I described the damage, and she said it's a write off. After a lot of heated discussion, she gave in and sent an "engineer" to assess the damage, who agreed with me that it should be repaired :D
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Re: How many left?

Post by WildMan10 »

Ah, but you can always take the write-off value less some sum to keep the car. On my Honda Accord 6 years ago the payout was £1900 less £100 to keep her as a Cat C/D. She cost me less than £200 to repair. I was very pleased with that.

When I had to scrap her a week ago after the cat was stolen and the exhaust butchered the assessor knocked 20% off her value for being Cat D.

If you intend to keep a car then the Cat D isn’t that much to lose out on if the repair is straightforward. Of course, you might struggle to sell on if you sell sooner.

I did get a Cat C upgraded to the ‘checked and approved’ category, whatever the correct term is now, which worked out for me at the time. I explained all to the buyer and he was delighted with the car and £1,000+ saving. A year later he demanded I give him his money back as he was finding it hard to sell without a reduction.
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Re: How many left?

Post by warpc0il »

WildMan10 wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:06 pm
you can always take the write-off value less some sum to keep the car
If only that were true.

Many insurance companies still refuse to sell the car back to the original owner as, somehow, they believe it encourages fraud.
They will only sell the wreck through the trade (e.g. Copart)

My Father had his Limited Edition Mk1 MR2 smashed into on his drive and had to fight, with the help of the MR2OC, to get close to a reasonable payout. He would have been happier to take some money and the car but the ins co refused.

How many of us check what our insurers would do in these circumstances before choosing a policy?
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Re: How many left?

Post by qwakers »

this is why you never ever let the insurance take a car away to be assessed. always have it done at your home address and you'll have a much better chance of keeping it!
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Re: How many left?

Post by docjonty »

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9PF78U7cc3vngNW98
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Runs like a champ.

Cost me 300 quid
Otr for about 650
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Re: How many left

Post by V8 Power »

Just having a look on the how many left site at a car I was interested in and also looked at the RX8 numbers
Very much a downward trend as expected but the number of sorn’d cars is alarming.
These figures are end of last year so pre Coronavirus affect.
Example RX8 231, Licensed 2,430, Sorn’d 3,204. So more Sorn’d than on the road! I thought it maybe a winter thing but if you look at the trend the Sorn’d figure continues to rise and does not recover greatly in the summer months.
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Re: How many left?

Post by Will66 »

The ones being pulled apart are probably SORN'd. Possibly any sitting at car dealers are too! It's not much fun considering there were 20,000 plus a few years ago!
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Re: How many left?

Post by v-rex »

It's interesting, as I do still the odd RX8 on the road. I never see Honda S2000's or Toyota MR2's. I might look up their numbers....
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Re: How many left?

Post by Will66 »

5100-ish Honda S2000s with 1800-ish SORN. There is a definite seasonal oscillation with these though!

Over 10000 Toyota MR2s mostly the new model though!


There are more RX8s than Rover/Austin Maestros though.
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