premix increase in MPG?

[mrspiller]

400ml per tank is already excessive, waaay more than I would use, even on track.

How much would you advice per tank on a track day Dave ?



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[AndyBrad]

interesting. thats about a ratio of 160:1 so still not that bad.

might even try it with 0 next.

[AndyBrad]

or how about loads of premix for a tank then a tank of cataclean?

i can only assume that any increases i am getting are due to carbon removal?

[warpc0il]

400ml per tank is already excessive, waaay more than I would use, even on track.

How much would you advice per tank on a track day Dave ?
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I use 100-125ml per tank for the road and twice that for the track.
I'm also running a sohn adapter, so nice clean 2T being injected and I have the OMP rate tweaked.

Some people run up to 300ml/tank for track time.

[mrspiller]

400ml per tank is already excessive, waaay more than I would use, even on track.

How much would you advice per tank on a track day Dave ?
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I use 100-125ml per tank for the road and twice that for the track.
I'm also running a sohn adapter, so nice clean 2T being injected and I have the OMP rate tweaked.

Some people run up to 300ml/tank for track time.

I’ve been putting 200 ml per 20 litre jerry can , maybe time to half that then ...........
And a sohn with oil feed turned up .


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[13Black]

400ml / tank is pretty much OMP delete territory.

I ran that before fitting Sohn to not get any dry spots bleeding through and it was often bogging down.

[warpc0il]

I’ve been putting 200 ml per 20 litre jerry can , maybe time to half that then ...........
And a sohn with oil feed turned up .

That could cause problems with cold starts, as the fuel just isn't volatile enough

[mrspiller]

Ive just checked and it was 200 ml
Will keep it to 100 ml per 20 lites in future


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[RenesisRaceBuggy]

That could cause problems with cold starts, as the fuel just isn't volatile enough

Doubt it, ours used to fire first turn of the key even after been stood for months in the depth of winter - and that was with 30-50:1 premix.

If anything I'd say the more I mixed in the better it was, probably helps with sealing when cold. Just anecdotal though.

[AndyBrad]

it does sound a little like its bogging down on idle. but will see what its like with a fresh tank when this runs out. off idle a lot smoother and quieter though.

so my thoughts are.
a) its sealing something
b) its cleaned something, like a sticky seal.

[RobinPZ72]

Gee 400ml sounds way to much! Use to race tune 2 stroke 's and this was a killer as people would use that little bit extra as they thought it would help!

Not really that clued up on the rotary, so much to learn!

Robin

[AndyBrad]

thats 160 :1 ish vs 300:1 ish with 200

2stroke is about 40:1 isnt it?

[PeteH]

I also think a lot of people didn't read the earlier posts. 400ml was a one off trial to assess the impact on fuel consumption (correct?), not something you consistently do. Definitely try zero next, for a proper back-to-back.....

[AndyBrad]

yup just a trial

[warpc0il]

While we're on the subject, a bit more related history...

Back in the day I found a gallon can of premixed 2T fuel in the back of the garage, that was at least two years old.
Not wanting to cause any more problems with a temperamental bike, if the stuff had "gone stale", and being too mean to throw it away, I dumped it into the half-filled tank of Pauline's Mk1 Escort.

My justification was that the stuff would get so diluted and the Escort 1300 engine was sufficiently forgiving that it would be okay - hopefully it wouldn't smoke too much...

Next day I took the car out and there was no noticeable smoke but a faint smell of 2T - this being when the only "cats" were small furry creatures that demand feeding every time they return to the house.

While I wouldn't have been that surprised by a little hesitation, the car was actually running smoother and much more lively, like it had been out for a good motorway run (aka Italian decoke) rather than just pottering about in traffic.

By the time of the next refill everything was back to normal and so, a couple of tankfuls later, I tried adding some 2T (a couple of glugs) directly to the tank to see if I could replicate the effect, but this time it made no difference.

Around this time there'd been a rumour going around the paddock that storing fuel in one of the "new plastic" cans, rather than the old steel jerry cans, would somehow boost the power though a chemical/magic effect. Racers will believe anything if they think that it will give them an edge though, thinking back, it's just as likely that the rumour was started by someone who thought that the opposite was true and they were trying to get one over on everyone else.

Anyway, I half-believed that it could have been "the plastic can effect" especially as those early cans could either go very brittle or soften and sag if left full of fuel in the sun - either way there's was something chemical happening.

These days I'm more convinced that the 2T loaded fuel had acted as cleaner/lubricant and had just let the carburettor work better. The effect wasn't reproducible because the problem hadn't had sufficient time in between to be cured again.

Years later I was working with some ex-Royal Engineers on a temporary radio base and saw them add something to the petrol tank of the generator set. Seems that they'd been taught to put a cupful of diesel into every fill of petrol, to keep the generator reliable and responsive to changes in applied load.

[RenesisRaceBuggy]

Common for racers before they forced them to use pump fuel and fuel tests. Chuck a cupful of 2 stroke in the petrol.

[AndyBrad]

interesting back story.

I lent he car to the other half today. (What i mean is she took it). on startup it stank. I now smell of 2t which is nice but im getting a lot of admiring looks from the older gents in the office today......

140 miles with 1/4 of a tank to go. this is good for me.

[350matt]

whats in your premix ? some kind of nitro?

[AndyBrad]

bog standard 2t oil

[dac69er]

While we're on the subject, a bit more related history...

Back in the day I found a gallon can of premixed 2T fuel in the back of the garage, that was at least two years old.
Not wanting to cause any more problems with a temperamental bike, if the stuff had "gone stale", and being too mean to throw it away, I dumped it into the half-filled tank of Pauline's Mk1 Escort.

My justification was that the stuff would get so diluted and the Escort 1300 engine was sufficiently forgiving that it would be okay - hopefully it wouldn't smoke too much...

Next day I took the car out and there was no noticeable smoke but a faint smell of 2T - this being when the only "cats" were small furry creatures that demand feeding every time they return to the house.

While I wouldn't have been that surprised by a little hesitation, the car was actually running smoother and much more lively, like it had been out for a good motorway run (aka Italian decoke) rather than just pottering about in traffic.

By the time of the next refill everything was back to normal and so, a couple of tankfuls later, I tried adding some 2T (a couple of glugs) directly to the tank to see if I could replicate the effect, but this time it made no difference.

Around this time there'd been a rumour going around the paddock that storing fuel in one of the "new plastic" cans, rather than the old steel jerry cans, would somehow boost the power though a chemical/magic effect. Racers will believe anything if they think that it will give them an edge though, thinking back, it's just as likely that the rumour was started by someone who thought that the opposite was true and they were trying to get one over on everyone else.

Anyway, I half-believed that it could have been "the plastic can effect" especially as those early cans could either go very brittle or soften and sag if left full of fuel in the sun - either way there's was something chemical happening.

These days I'm more convinced that the 2T loaded fuel had acted as cleaner/lubricant and had just let the carburettor work better. The effect wasn't reproducible because the problem hadn't had sufficient time in between to be cured again.

Years later I was working with some ex-Royal Engineers on a temporary radio base and saw them add something to the petrol tank of the generator set. Seems that they'd been taught to put a cupful of diesel into every fill of petrol, to keep the generator reliable and responsive to changes in applied load.

strange you mention that. i find that 6+ month old fuel seems to create less engine knock than fresh fuel of the same grade!?

this has not been a scientific test, but it is a noticeable difference on my engine knock readings. I have seen it on 2 different cars (albeit the same type of engine), so cant just be a fluke coincidence.

[AndyBrad]

Interestingly no decrease in consumption with the first tank of vpower (no premix) although the engine sounds less smooth

will try another tank and see what happens.

[warpc0il]

Perhaps the premix softened some carbon and allowed the seals to function better, or freed-off a sticking fuel injector, or something similar that the benefit will continue, with or without premix in future tanks, until the next time. ...

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[AndyBrad]

could be. Ill continue to see if i can see a difference through winter.

ill run 2 tanks of each to see if there is any noticeable diff.

[AndyBrad]

right somethings not right.

As i mentioned before the fuel gauge drops to 3/4 and then back to 1/2 full. this morning i noticed it fluctuating with the revs.

Im concerned. Sender unit or dash?

[warpc0il]

The process between the tank and the gauge is quite complicated, not just a sender and gauge.

There are two level sensers because of the shape of the tank. These then send signals to the PCM, which does some complicated calculations to determine what to show on the gauge.

Obviously, if either of the sensors are sticking or have been damaged, as many have reported following the recall, then the PCM will be seeing the wrong information.

The sensor unit are different, right and left, and apparently some dealers refitted them in the wrong sides, which also produces weird results.

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