Bleeding Brake Problem

Place for discussions about the RX-8
User avatar
Ashman
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:51 pm
RX-8: PZ
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Milton keynes
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

I blocked both outlets from the master cylinder and the pedal went down about half way then stopped. I'm assuming the master cylinder is ok so the problem is definitely further down.
User avatar
ChrisHolmes
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 28283
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Has thanked: 2567 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by ChrisHolmes »

Hmm! My bet is an abs unit that is full of air. Dunno how you check or sort that though!
Rotary History;

Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black R3
Avatar courtesy of my grandson Cameron
User avatar
Ashman
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:51 pm
RX-8: PZ
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Milton keynes
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

The Mazda mechanic said they're a nightmare if not impossible to bleed so not sure what to do.
untakenname
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 959
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:18 am
RX-8: 231
Colour: Kuro Black
Location: London
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by untakenname »

To bleed an abs unit you need a dealers service tool as it will cycle the valves in a specific way.
There's a way to do it manually with some Bosch units by sending power down certain pins or by fooling the speed sensor of the wheels to cycle the abs but both are a bit of a bodge.

When I used Forscan a couple of years ago to properly code a new key (with just one original) the abs service bleed was a work in progress at the time, not sure what the status of it is now.
User avatar
boosted
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 3153
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:32 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Aurora Blue Mica
Location: Westbury Wilts
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by boosted »

Have not changed on an 8 but done 2 1 series BMW abs units bosch 1s as the pressure sensor fails in them...swapped over units connected all pipes...then bleed every port on abs unit by cracking the joint whilst pedal pressure supplying fluid and then each caliper nipples..both cars bled up fine.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

231 streetported Rx8 renny powered Westfield kit race car. SOLD
92 Rx7 fd3s stock twins..est.320bhp. RETIRED Track car.
93 eunos s-sp 1.6 turbo gt2545r 226bhp track slag. in continuous development.
Scooby doo bugeye wagon wrx daily.
Mondeodog towcar.
Mx5 mk2 1.8 10ae nice day daily rust bucket.
User avatar
Ashman
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:51 pm
RX-8: PZ
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Milton keynes
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

Ok i can give that a go.

What about blocking off the ends of the brake pipes at the caliper side? Saying that, there's still air in the system so that may not work... :?
User avatar
boosted
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 3153
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:32 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Aurora Blue Mica
Location: Westbury Wilts
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by boosted »

Bleed down..so fill reservoir..open mc ports til fluid comes out..slight pedal pressure. Each in turn nip up. Then onto abs unit..again bleed slight pedal pressure open each port inturn til fluid comes out..check reservoir periodically. Never leave a port open.
Then onto calipers..rear longest pipe run first ascending to shortest 1. When ive probs in past with all nipple/ports tight ive done a pedal test periodically.
Prob gonna need some more fluid too.
Good luck.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

231 streetported Rx8 renny powered Westfield kit race car. SOLD
92 Rx7 fd3s stock twins..est.320bhp. RETIRED Track car.
93 eunos s-sp 1.6 turbo gt2545r 226bhp track slag. in continuous development.
Scooby doo bugeye wagon wrx daily.
Mondeodog towcar.
Mx5 mk2 1.8 10ae nice day daily rust bucket.
User avatar
Ashman
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:51 pm
RX-8: PZ
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Milton keynes
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

Y'know what, i am thinking of giving up and just paying someone else to solve the problem. I've had enough of bleeding the brakes over and over. It's made all the more difficult because i'm ill and it takes a lot of effort just to get out there and do it. I might pop down to Mazda and see what they say. The problem is i'll have to pay to have the car lifted on a trailer there and back so it's gonna be a fair bit just to diagnose let alone repair and to be honest i don't think i trust a normal garage with this car.

So frustrated :x :(
User avatar
SeriousSam
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 3020
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 3:32 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Blazingstoke
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by SeriousSam »

If you have a local trusted garage then they can sort this for you. Specialist engine stuff should be left to Mazda or your nearest rotary expert, but brakes are brakes. There's no appreciable difference between the brake setup on an RX-8 and any other modern car that runs discs all round, so take it down to your local friendly garage and they'll see you right :)
These users thanked the author SeriousSam for the post:
ChrisHolmes (Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:30 pm)
To Do List: HKS CAMP2 install; cruise control; new exhaust; detail paintwork, possible respray

Done: Hayward Rotary rebuild and stage 2 port; Racing Beat ARBs, adjustable front droplinks, ram air intake and lightened flywheel; Exedy stage 1 clutch; Eibach Pro-Kit lowering springs; Koyo radiator; heated front screen; EBC redstuff pads all round
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by warpc0il »

There's nothing specifically "Mazda" about the brakes and certainly nothing "rotary" that makes them any different to any other car with abs - which is pretty much everything these days.

Have a ring around and see who would be prepared to sort it, including collection on a low-loader/trailer.
Towing, even with an a-frame or dolly isn't an option, not only due to the lack of brakes but because the car must not be towed with the rear wheels on the ground.
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
User avatar
boosted
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 3153
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:32 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Aurora Blue Mica
Location: Westbury Wilts
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by boosted »

Id look for a mobile mechanic mate, come to the house he will have all the tools in his van...prob get you todo to foot work or a have bleeder kit...
Tell him everything that has happened and see if 1 will come out...dont really need to go on a ramp...
Trailer gonna be 100plus..mobile mechanic 40plus so 2.5 labour probably 100.


Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

231 streetported Rx8 renny powered Westfield kit race car. SOLD
92 Rx7 fd3s stock twins..est.320bhp. RETIRED Track car.
93 eunos s-sp 1.6 turbo gt2545r 226bhp track slag. in continuous development.
Scooby doo bugeye wagon wrx daily.
Mondeodog towcar.
Mx5 mk2 1.8 10ae nice day daily rust bucket.
User avatar
boosted
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 3153
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:32 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Aurora Blue Mica
Location: Westbury Wilts
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by boosted »

 Did some googling Milton Keynes Mobile mechanic got 5* google reveiws..could not find a labour rate..
call Stephen Ledster on 07814663519
Id tell him whats happened what you have done and see what he says.
 


Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

231 streetported Rx8 renny powered Westfield kit race car. SOLD
92 Rx7 fd3s stock twins..est.320bhp. RETIRED Track car.
93 eunos s-sp 1.6 turbo gt2545r 226bhp track slag. in continuous development.
Scooby doo bugeye wagon wrx daily.
Mondeodog towcar.
Mx5 mk2 1.8 10ae nice day daily rust bucket.
User avatar
Ashman
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:51 pm
RX-8: PZ
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Milton keynes
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

He'll bleed the brakes for £45-60, i suppose if he can't bleed them then he'll at least tell me what the problem is.
User avatar
boosted
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 3153
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:32 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Aurora Blue Mica
Location: Westbury Wilts
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by boosted »

That sounds very resonable to me...and prob half Mazdas hourly rate...its gonna take him an hour at least..what with taking wheels off.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

231 streetported Rx8 renny powered Westfield kit race car. SOLD
92 Rx7 fd3s stock twins..est.320bhp. RETIRED Track car.
93 eunos s-sp 1.6 turbo gt2545r 226bhp track slag. in continuous development.
Scooby doo bugeye wagon wrx daily.
Mondeodog towcar.
Mx5 mk2 1.8 10ae nice day daily rust bucket.
User avatar
casey
Events Team Member
Events Team Member
Posts: 12589
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:14 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Titanium Grey
Location: Colchester
Has thanked: 507 times
Been thanked: 451 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by casey »

Sounds a good way forward to me - a very reasonable charge to come out and do it too!

Well done Jon for finding that guy =D>
Essex Rotary Full Bridgeport
Seibon Carbon Fibre Bonnet, "Racing Brake" front calipers, Racing Beat (RB) ARB's F&R, RB REVI intake, full RB Stainless Steel Exhaust & Mani, 20mm Eibach spacers, KOYO Ali Rad, Lightened Fly, Tein MonoFlex coilovers & strut brace, Axial short-shifter, BHR Coils & Engine Mounts, Greddy Sump
Federal 595RS-R or Rainsport 3
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by warpc0il »

Does he charge more if you want to watch and take pictures?
These users thanked the author warpc0il for the post:
13Black (Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:50 pm)
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
User avatar
ChrisHolmes
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 28283
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Has thanked: 2567 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by ChrisHolmes »

warpc0il wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:10 pm
Does he charge more if you want to watch and take pictures?
Are you in the correct forum Dave?
These users thanked the author ChrisHolmes for the post:
13Black (Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:50 pm)
Rotary History;

Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black R3
Avatar courtesy of my grandson Cameron
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by warpc0il »

I just thought I'd ask, for Nigel... ;)
These users thanked the author warpc0il for the post:
nightfire10 (Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:13 am)
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
User avatar
casey
Events Team Member
Events Team Member
Posts: 12589
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:14 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Titanium Grey
Location: Colchester
Has thanked: 507 times
Been thanked: 451 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by casey »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I was waiting for someone to respond to Dave's comment :lol: :lol: :lol:
Essex Rotary Full Bridgeport
Seibon Carbon Fibre Bonnet, "Racing Brake" front calipers, Racing Beat (RB) ARB's F&R, RB REVI intake, full RB Stainless Steel Exhaust & Mani, 20mm Eibach spacers, KOYO Ali Rad, Lightened Fly, Tein MonoFlex coilovers & strut brace, Axial short-shifter, BHR Coils & Engine Mounts, Greddy Sump
Federal 595RS-R or Rainsport 3
Paulie
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:59 am
Colour: Titanium Grey
Location: Lampeter, Ceredigion
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Paulie »

You need compressed air for this, but its idiot proof, in the past I have never successfully bled a full system, but now my brakes fly through mot's...... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOCHE-CAR-VA ... SwvmRa2hjX
User avatar
qwakers
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9053
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:56 pm
RX-8: Turbo
Colour: Nordic Green
Location: cornwall
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 539 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by qwakers »

try reverse bleeding it. large syringe of fluid open bleed nipple and push fluid backwards.
User avatar
Ashman
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:51 pm
RX-8: PZ
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Milton keynes
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

Push the air back up to the master?

That never occurred to me, anyone done this before?
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32537
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by warpc0il »

I used to use this method on bikes
- twin front brakes that have a t-splitter that traps air
- rear brakes where there's little height difference between the reservoir and the caliper.

In both cases it works better than other methods, as long as you have a large enough syringe, e.g.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Syringe-type ... xyzGlQ8olU
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
User avatar
ChrisHolmes
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 28283
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:04 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Has thanked: 2567 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by ChrisHolmes »

I cannot sleep until I hear that this is all sorted........
These users thanked the author ChrisHolmes for the post:
13Black (Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:44 pm)
Rotary History;

Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black R3
Avatar courtesy of my grandson Cameron
User avatar
Ashman
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:51 pm
RX-8: PZ
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Milton keynes
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

Nope, it's still on stands. I've had someone try and bleed the brakes and it's no good. The guy reckons it's master cylinder, i did buy another but it was the wrong one so i returned it. It seems odd that i now have 2 dead master cylinders.