Bleeding Brake Problem

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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by qwakers »

the one i sold you was a1 when i took it off.... was a few months ago mind, but still, i would doubt it...
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by ChrisHolmes »

Contact BigPete who probably has a good used MC in stock
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

qwakers wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:59 pm
the one i sold you was a1 when i took it off.... was a few months ago mind, but still, i would doubt it...
That's why i was sure it wasn't master cylinder but everyone keeps saying it's that so if i buy another then it rules out that possibility.
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by boosted »

Id buy a new 1...
And without wishing to offend...maybe your bleeding technique..
Get that guy back to do it?

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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Paulie »

I'll say it again.... you want one of these and borrow or buy a small compressor then, the way that works for me is rear left, rear right, front fright front left, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOCHE-CAR-VA ... SwvmRa2hjX
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

I bought a vacuum bleeder a couple weeks or so ago, it works though it doesn't solve the problem i'm having.
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by warpc0il »

I'm wondering if one of your new lines has got a pin-hole leak, that's letting air in when the pressure drops, even though it's not leaking fluid when the pressure rises. This is possible with bolted-up hose connections and would be very difficult to track down.

I've come across all sorts of weird issues with hydraulic brakes over the years; in addition to the above I've also found a "seized caliper" that was replaced with a new one, that also "seized" :? This turned out to be an original rubber hose that had de-laminated internally and was acting as a non-return valve, allowing the brake to come on but not release.

Also had strange problems with master cylinders fitted with plastic reservoirs, where the o-ring under the reservoir has allowed air to enter but not leaked fluid, and had a very similar problems with a bike rear brake and an Alfa clutch, where the low pressure hoses from the remote reservoirs had become air-porous.
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

I need to get over to Mazda and see what they charge to bleed the system and see if they can pinpoint the problem. It's not gonna be cheap methinks... :(
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by ChrisHolmes »

Surely it does not have to be Mazda, a good independent would be my choice as often they know more than main dealer "technicians" who only ever see relatively new vehicles.
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

The car is now booked in at the Mazda dealership on the 28th. This is the last attempt at getting the brakes working because multiple people have tried and failed and i've thrown a ton of money at it with no progress. If they can't fix it then i really don't know what i'll do with it.
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by boosted »

Goodluck be interesting to hear what they say.

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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by untakenname »

Do they work and bite/slow initially when the revs are up?
Thinking about it I used to have really poor braking at slow speeds and it was due to a vacuum leak after I deleted the vfad and capped the line which after a whileleaked.
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by slidey »

I've been helping a friend with much the same problem on a Skoda Octavia , he fitted new front calipers and completely drained the master cylinder, never a good idea unless you have to. He couldn't get the brake pedal to hold a pressure, so I followed the VAG method, rear left,rear right, and so on....we tried and tried, got close but the pedal would go soft again! much head scratching went on. A quick google found other owners having issues after brake rebuilds and letting the master cylinder completely empty. The problem was air in the ABS unit, some said you could remove the air by doing emergency stops, which activate the valves in the Abs unit,letting the air out...tried that, no joy! Final solution local VAG specialist, plugged the car into VAG software, opened the valves and bled the system.Job done! Could well the same problem, hope you get it sorted.
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

Bit late to reply, i've been ill :(

That's my thoughts too. We had it up on stands and run the wheels up to speed and pumped the brakes and although now we have a very small amount of braking power the pedal still goes right to the floor and it's not enough to stop the car even at pushing speed. That's after replacing the abs module too. So they're gonna try and bleed the abs unit and see what happens.

I'll post the result here, i just hope it's good news [-o<
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

So Mazda had it all day today and their verdict is, they have no idea what's wrong with it. They recommend i replace the abs module with a new unit but they're £800. So i'm going to look around for somewhere to possibly repair the module i have, one of which is Sinspeed who i've messaged today. This really isn't going well... :(
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by qwakers »

ummmm, i have a abs module :)
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by ChrisHolmes »

Hold on, I don't know the mechanics of when the ABS unit "works" but surely it is effectively not there during all normal braking and only activates when wheels start to skid, or just before of course. So why would it be the cause of you having no pedal at all? Where is the pressure being relived to? Before forking out on a new or even a used ABS unit I suggest you effectively forget everything you have previously done and start from scratch.
Have you not actually already fitted a replacement ABS unit previous so why would another one fix the problem?

I think the brothers Ryan, as in Ryan Rotary Performance, are around your area and may be able to help. Try a PM to Carl.
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

I have sent the abs module off to Adaptronic to be repaired, or at least looked at, so I'll let you know how that goes.
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

I got the module back today. The electronic side has been tested and was fine, they also replaced the other half. I fitted it, bled the brakes again and same problem. It's locking the front left wheel too.

Anyone have any ideas on what else i can try? ABS sensors?
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Conan »

I feel for you as this has been a real marathon.
You could give it to a motor sport academy, university to fix which can be cheap as well.
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Liam22 »

Locking front left means that caliper is working. Focus on the front right now. Bleed just that one a few more times, with the engine running.

Can't be the sensors. If in doubt, pull the ABS fuse.

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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by slidey »

Had the same locked wheels when chasing the same problem, as I posted earlier. I still think your problem lies with air in the ABS module.I personally wouldn't have let Mazda touch it, one of the specialist on here would have been better. I wouldn't go throwing more parts at it, the problem has only come to light since you replaced the discs,pads and lines and tried to bleed the system.
I spents days trying to sort the same thing,ok it was on a SKODA but i'm not shy when it comes to brakes, but this was the first time i'd come across a system I couldn't bleed up and i'd tried every trick in the book. Does anyone local to you have the software that'll let you open the valves in the ABS module, maybe borrow a copy that you can use on a laptop?

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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by boosted »

If the abs light comes on and off when starting then its self check is ok...if then when driven over 5 to 10mph the light comes on then there is wheel sped sensor error also the tcs light will come on as uses the same sensors.
Id be tempted to bled with the unit disconnected. The units been tested but the plug and associated electrics have not.
Wondering if a short or moisture in abs plug?

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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by Ashman »

The problem is the car isn't legal so i can't drive it anywhere, i wouldn't really want to with dodgy brakes anyway. I suppose i could just run it the 50 meters down the end of the street and back but that'll be it.

I phoned Rotary Revs today and they said they've never heard of this problem before.
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Re: Bleeding Brake Problem

Post by geofftl1000r »

Ashman wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:00 pm
I got the module back today. The electronic side has been tested and was fine, they also replaced the other half. I fitted it, bled the brakes again and same problem. It's locking the front left wheel too.

Anyone have any ideas on what else i can try? ABS sensors?
My car (Rover75) had the same problems, front left was locking, changed the calliper and no matter what I did I couldn't get the pedal pressure back. Changed the ABS unit thinking that was the issue (trapped air as no way to open the valves).
Car eventually went to a Rover specialist who swapped out the master cylinder and all was good again.
The front calliper I replaced was working fine so replaced it for nothing. Apparently the seals in the master cylinder can flip somehow if you push the pedal all the way to floor when bleeding and it had been the first time my daughter had helped with bleeding the brakes and I had never explained the process too well. £50 for a used master cylinder after weeks of faffing about. :oops:
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