4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Place for discussions about the RX-8
User avatar
Dazza44
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:35 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Winning Blue
Location: stamford lincs
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 46 times

4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

hi all, just had the above done, and its like rocket science to me, hoping that someone can look at the results in pic,and tell me if there within limits
the top is before,bottom now
many thanks Image
a0c27649115de0b10ec635b5d6a28c86.jpg
09c58a24d838e7e5693f836e6e2390e8.jpg
(Edit: Images fixed by PeteH)

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
qwakers
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9053
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:56 pm
RX-8: Turbo
Colour: Nordic Green
Location: cornwall
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 539 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by qwakers »

cant see pics :(
User avatar
Dazza44
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:35 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Winning Blue
Location: stamford lincs
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

oh my bad i try again
ImageImage

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

User avatar
MightyCondor
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 1899
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:14 pm
RX-8: PZ
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Reading, Berks
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by MightyCondor »

Nope still can't see them...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

User avatar
Dazza44
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:35 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Winning Blue
Location: stamford lincs
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

well thats odd , any suggestions how elae to add them, aa this is a first for me

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

PeteH
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 5849
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:26 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Custom
Location: West Sussex
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 367 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by PeteH »

Fixed for you Dazza. Easiest just to host them on here, rather than trying to link through Tapatalk.
These users thanked the author PeteH for the post:
Dazza44 (Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:05 pm)
User avatar
Dazza44
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:35 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Winning Blue
Location: stamford lincs
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

thanks pete

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

User avatar
qwakers
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9053
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:56 pm
RX-8: Turbo
Colour: Nordic Green
Location: cornwall
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 539 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by qwakers »

if the bottom one is after i wouldnt be happy with that.
PeteH
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 5849
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:26 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Custom
Location: West Sussex
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 367 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by PeteH »

(Sorry qwakers, I think they got swapped. If you look at the titles on the sheets then the top one seems to be after adjustment...)

By the way Dazza, all he did was a small adjustment to your front toe settings. You are running quite a lot of front and rear negative camber (you have lowered the car haven't you?). I'd say for the road you are probably running too much negative camber, and it might cause your tyres to wear on the inside shoulder before the outside shoulder. You should keep a check on the inside of your tyres. You may also notice a bit more "pull" and "tramlining" with the cambers you run. With the amount of camber you are running I'd have kept the front toe setting as it was (slightly toe out), rather than adjusting it back to within spec. If I was doing your geometry I'd have put your cambers back to around 1 to 1.5 degrees negative, and left the toe where it was. But adjusting the toe is probably the only thing the technician knew how to do...
User avatar
Dazza44
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:35 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Winning Blue
Location: stamford lincs
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

thanks guys,yes pete car is lowered, he dis only adjust the front slightly as you said,he said the reat was fine,i had it done as mot advisory was both front inner tyre s were worn,so suggestions keep an eye on tyre wear ?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

User avatar
qwakers
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9053
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:56 pm
RX-8: Turbo
Colour: Nordic Green
Location: cornwall
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 539 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by qwakers »

sorry but even the top pic is terrible. hes adjusted front toe and not touched anything else, i hope you didnt pay much...
User avatar
Dazza44
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:35 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Winning Blue
Location: stamford lincs
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

no didnt pay alot,it was as i said the front tyres that were wearing slightly on inner sides,the rears literally had no wear at all.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

PeteH
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 5849
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:26 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Custom
Location: West Sussex
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 367 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by PeteH »

Inside shoulder wear, you say? I should be a psychic!

You really need to get your front camber adjusted. As I say, aim for between -1deg and -1.5deg. That toe adjustment will make next to no difference. You are best taking it to someone who properly knows what they are doing with suspension. Kwik Fit isn't going to be able to help you with this one.
User avatar
Dazza44
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:35 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Winning Blue
Location: stamford lincs
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

thanks pete ,i shall have to look for somewhere which will be able to adjust it all up for me
am.i right in assuming that even though the toe in has had small adjustment im still likely to suffer with inner tyre premature wear(on the front).

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

PeteH
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 5849
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:26 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Custom
Location: West Sussex
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 367 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by PeteH »

Yes. :(
User avatar
Dazza44
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:35 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Winning Blue
Location: stamford lincs
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

thanks pete for all the replys/help much appreciated

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

User avatar
Eddie_r32
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:18 pm
RX-8: 231
Location: Henley-on-Thames
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Eddie_r32 »

Toe is a bigger tyre killer than camber as it effectively scrubs your tyre across the tarmac, I think you will still get wear on shoulders but not nearly as bad as you had it
2007 Galaxy grey 231.
RRP Parts: Full bridge, long tube header, cofs + tanks, pulleys, engine mounts, oil injectors, remap, race cat.
Other: Greddy sump, Autoexe exhaust, autoexe brake brace, ingalls engine brace, ultra racing f+r strut brace, hsd coilovers, whiteline Arbs, 4 pot brakes, r3 Diff, r3 interior and lots more
PeteH
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 5849
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:26 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Custom
Location: West Sussex
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 367 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by PeteH »

Eddie_r32 wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:13 pm
Toe ... scrubs your tyre across the tarmac
So does camber. :thumright:
User avatar
Eddie_r32
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:18 pm
RX-8: 231
Location: Henley-on-Thames
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Eddie_r32 »

Camber just reduces the wear patch on the road, if you go in a straight line with 5 degrees of camber the wheels travel forward, if you did that with 5 degrees of toe out or in those wheels are being scrubbed as they are pointing left/right but car is going straight on
2007 Galaxy grey 231.
RRP Parts: Full bridge, long tube header, cofs + tanks, pulleys, engine mounts, oil injectors, remap, race cat.
Other: Greddy sump, Autoexe exhaust, autoexe brake brace, ingalls engine brace, ultra racing f+r strut brace, hsd coilovers, whiteline Arbs, 4 pot brakes, r3 Diff, r3 interior and lots more
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32532
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by warpc0il »

IME a small error in toe has a much more rapid effect on tyre wear than a similar error in camber, as it creates scrub under all conditions.

However, the slightest error in camber can make toe related tyre wear much more rapid; which - by definition means that the errors in toe can make camber related wear worse.

It's bit like drugs on top of alcohol, or alcohol on top of drugs, neither is a good idea for keeping in a straight line.

On older cars rwd cars I tend to go for slightly more toe-in, as this is normally set on a static rig.
Any wear on the related suspension and steering components will tend to make the effective toe less (towards toe-out) as the car pushes from the rear through the rolling resistance of the front wheels.

Similarly, I'd set a fwd car with more toe-out, as the wheels try and pull ahead of the car.

In both cases I'm only talking about which end of the normal range (tolerance) to aim for, rather than going far outside that range.
These users thanked the author warpc0il for the post:
Eddie_r32 (Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:52 pm)
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
User avatar
Dazza44
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:35 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Winning Blue
Location: stamford lincs
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

i read this several times now, admittingly i still dont understand all the different measurments , confused.com springs to my mind,
i guess what im asking are all the measurments camber included,within the manufacture specs.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

User avatar
qwakers
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9053
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:56 pm
RX-8: Turbo
Colour: Nordic Green
Location: cornwall
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 539 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by qwakers »

the answer to that, is no. red is bad.
User avatar
casey
Events Team Member
Events Team Member
Posts: 12589
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:14 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Titanium Grey
Location: Colchester
Has thanked: 507 times
Been thanked: 451 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by casey »

For comparison, here's my setup on lowered Tein Monoflex. I've found this setup works well on road and track;
Alignment Jan 2013.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
These users thanked the author casey for the post:
Dazza44 (Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:42 pm)
Essex Rotary Full Bridgeport
Seibon Carbon Fibre Bonnet, "Racing Brake" front calipers, Racing Beat (RB) ARB's F&R, RB REVI intake, full RB Stainless Steel Exhaust & Mani, 20mm Eibach spacers, KOYO Ali Rad, Lightened Fly, Tein MonoFlex coilovers & strut brace, Axial short-shifter, BHR Coils & Engine Mounts, Greddy Sump
Federal 595RS-R or Rainsport 3
User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 32532
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 2080 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by warpc0il »

In order for the system to generate the correct results the operator needs to measure the ride height and input into the system, as this changes the target numbers.

Failure to do this can result in a nice green report that is totally wrong.

It also means that we can't be sure if those numbers are correct or not for your car.

Even the most expensive equipment requires a trained and careful operator.

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk

Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ
PeteH
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 5849
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:26 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Custom
Location: West Sussex
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 367 times

Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by PeteH »

Eddie_r32 wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:24 pm
Camber just reduces the wear patch on the road, if you go in a straight line with 5 degrees of camber the wheels travel forward, if you did that with 5 degrees of toe out or in those wheels are being scrubbed as they are pointing left/right but car is going straight on
Oh, if only we knew an F1 tyre engineer, for a definitive opinion. :shock: :? ;)

(I'm tempted to draw some pictures to explain, but I'm on my phone at the moment)