4 wheel alignment within tolerance

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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Eddie_r32 »

PeteH wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:26 pm
Eddie_r32 wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:24 pm
Camber just reduces the wear patch on the road, if you go in a straight line with 5 degrees of camber the wheels travel forward, if you did that with 5 degrees of toe out or in those wheels are being scrubbed as they are pointing left/right but car is going straight on
Oh, if only we knew an F1 tyre engineer, for a definitive opinion. :shock: :? ;)

(I'm tempted to draw some pictures to explain, but I'm on my phone at the moment)

Ask them. I could ask multiple people I know on the subject but all I had to do was a quick Google to confirm I am correct and not bother anyone.
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

dave he did measure the ride height as i did see hi m do this and input this into computer, but as say dont automatically means it was dome correct, me being easily confused not sure what my best course of action would be perhaps run the car back upto where it was done

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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by kopite72 »

Pete is there any chance you could pop a pic up of what you consider to be the ideal ( or near enough to ) setup for a road going car? Maybe a previous print out you've had or if not maybe post what you consider to be the correct set up? Very interested in this topic.
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

whathesaid rhat would be great if you could pete , id take the figures back to the shop and get them to adjust everything accordingly

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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by kopite72 »

Be a great reference point for everyone,hell a mod should make it a sticky IMO....
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Conan »

Dazza44 wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:42 pm
dave he did measure the ride height as i did see hi m do this and input this into computer, but as say dont automatically means it was dome correct, me being easily confused not sure what my best course of action would be perhaps run the car back upto where it was done

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Did he check the tyre pressures before he took any measurements ??
I tell people all the time to keep quite and watch to see if they check the tyre pressures, if they don’t just get in the car and leave.
As people have said your chamber settings are way out.
Car set up is not the same for everyone or for all mods ( suspension etc )
For you camber set at 1.25 all round or increase to 1.5 on the rear will be fine.
Regards
Pete
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

hi pete, the tyre pressure was the fist thing he checked, which tbh i thought it was odd why he did that, but reading your post must have been the right thing ro have done.

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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

dont know if fhis is relevant but there are 20mm spacers on the car also

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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by warpc0il »

kopite72 wrote:Be a great reference point for everyone,hell a mod should make it a sticky IMO....
There isn't a one-sided fits all, as it depends how you intend to drive the car and what suspension mods you have.

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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by kopite72 »

I'm aware of that but as a general guideline of a stock road car it would be useful
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by chriskirkham »

Dazza44 wrote:dont know if fhis is relevant but there are 20mm spacers on the car also

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I can recommend BM Sport in Bexley for 4-wheel alignment. Despite being BMW specialists, they also appreciate what a fine handling vehicle (when correctly set up) the RX8 is. Had this done on mine last year after I had four new tyres and lowering springs fitted, and wow what a difference.

https://www.bmsport.com/workshop/kds-4-wheel-alignment/

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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

morning all, right ive got my car booked in next week, apparently they have done a few 8s before,i have looked at the service manuals vit tbh i dont understand the figurea at all,
im hoping that you good people could provide me with a set of figures for each camber/castor/toe in, so that i cam just give these to the sjop in question for them to make the adjustments.

car is only used for road use.
much appreciate any help
darren

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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Conan »

Hi Darren,
First thing is to tell us exactly what mods you have to the running gear.
You have spacers, it’s lowered some way but exactly what shocks and springs ?
Standard roll bars or not ?
What tyres are you using, size etc Lastly driving style and environment, town, country, fast, very fast, corner hard and fast?
Regards
Pete

PS: You will get different advise from different people for various reasons as one size doesn’t fit all.
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

hi pete,
the car is lowered on apex springs, shocks are standard, everything else is standard, as menthioned 20mm spacers, just replaced all 4 tyres went for rainsport3s 225 40 18
general driving(if such a thing), quite alot of country roads i use so do tend to drive a little quick cornering included


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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by warpc0il »

The reason that the ride height needs to be checked is because there's a table that tells the operator/machine what settings to use, based on that ride-height, for both castor and camber. Therefore the rows in the tables to use for your car is unlikely to be the same as someone else's, especially as front and rear have to be measured independently. Which is also why the tyre pressures and fuel level (e.g. full-tank) are also important.

Toe-in and Steering Angle aren't ride-height dependant and therefore the front toe-in of Degree 0°11'±21' is the same of all 8's.
That's a minimum of -10 minutes and a maximum of +32 minutes, where 1 minute is a 60th of a degree.

Each of the settings have a tolerance (max and minimum) and choosing to go towards one end of a tolerance, will have an impact.
For example, some people like to run more negative camber (wheels out or at the bottom than the top) so they would choose a figure nearer the top of the range, for their ride height.

However, any specific number for castor or camber could be at (or off) the top of the scale for one car and the bottom for another, depending on the ride heights.
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by Dazza44 »

thanks dave i think i get it so preaumable the shop should know(i hope)

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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by SeriousSam »

A good shop would know, an average one would not. My local guys are sound, they know what they're doing when it comes to aligning the car to my requirements, but to get that specific setup I spent £300 at TDI in Thurrock. That was money well spent, the car was so much better after than before. If you can find the money to take it for a proper setup by a company that knows their stuff, then do it - the fact your car is lowered means that some expertise on behalf of the mechanic will help a lot, and that expertise doesn't come cheap.
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by kopite72 »

Might aswell throw mine up here too had it done this morning.... Thoughts Pete?
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by warpc0il »

First observation is that they put in the wrong details for your car.

There are two tables in the Mazda Workshop Manual regarding the wheel alignments;
- one is headed "Standard Suspension"
- the other is "Sports Suspension"

If your car is UK-spec then it has Sports Suspension, and they used the wrong table.

The only cars in the UK with Standard Suspension are JDM grey imports.

I know you're in ROI but IFAIK the above still applies.
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by kopite72 »

Great #-o I take it the above alignment is about as useful as an ash tray on a motorbike then?

Don't suppose anyone has a link for the sports suspension alignment set up?
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by warpc0il »

https://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/v ... 58&t=35629
- Workshop manual
+ Suspension
+ Wheel Alignment
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by kopite72 »

Cheers Dave, I'm hoping when I go back there they will have the sports set up but if not I'll show them what you linked.

BTW is the standard set up which is what I have atm massively different from the sports set up?

I don't track my car and its just used for everyday driving. Will the standard set up affect handling and tyre wear to a degree that its really noticeable over running a sports set up?
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by PeteH »

You might think the "sports" set up is a "sporty" geometry for go-faster performance. It isn't. It's just the same basic settings, but translated to the lower ride height of the sports suspension's lowered springs.

Mazda didn't "retune" the car at all. In fact, if you put the sports and non-sports cars onto axle stands so that they were both at the same height, they would have exactly the same camber settings.

If you look at any RX8 that still has undisturbed camber and caster bolts, you will find that almost all of them are set at the mid-position, regardless of what suspension is fitted. That's the way Mazda designed it. The adjustment is really for in-service adjustments (after minor crash damage ect.). Fortunately it also provides us the opportunity to play with those settings. :twisted:
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by kopite72 »

Thanks Pete, no need to go back so or do you think I should?
R3 GONE, FUN WHILE I HAD HER BUT NOW LOVING MY 25TH ANNIVERSARY MX5

Mods so far..
BBR 200 PACKAGE
COBRA " RACE " BACK BOX
MEISTER COILOVERS
KONIG HYPERGRAMS ( POLISHED LIP)
RACING BEAT ARB's ( FRONT AND REAR )
IL MOTORSPORTS STRUT BRACE AND ADJUSTABLE
DROPLINKS

Mods planned..
BBR STAGE 2 SUPERCHARGED
WILWOOD 6 POT BBK
FULL UNDRBODY SEAL
ATOTO HEAD UNIT
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Re: 4 wheel alignment within tolerance

Post by PeteH »

The technician used the wrong settings, so it depends if you want to make a fuss. Your car will be better with the correct settings.....

But it's not terrible with those settings, for normal road use.