Tein flex coilovers too soft???

[RenesisRaceBuggy]

I've had far too little coffee today so apologies if I'm talking out if my exhaust port.

But the stiffer 7kg/mm front springs on the rear would make it less likely to bottom out on the rear, no?

Just my coffee deprived musings.

Not if, as it looks, the springs are too short. It's actually bottoming out on the spring, not the bumpstop, you can see the marks on the springs.

[13Black]

Well indeedy, but the Tein setup has longer springs at the front as well I thought?

Mad idea (still need that coffee) I don't suppose these are NC MX-5 coilovers are they? xD

[spanuel]

I'm taking them off tomorrow night and checking all the part numbers.


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[Goobie]

Here's a picture of the same kit taken from another thread, all looks the same to me.

I'm no expert though but it does look like to much pre load for the springs to bottom out and not catch the bump stops, i.e. giving the dampers less room to travel as less coil space.

[PeteH]

Just to wrap this thread up, in case anyone looks back on it. I went to look at the car.

There is nothing wrong with the car or the coilovers. They are just not to the taste of spanuel. The Flez Z are designed for road use, and occasional track use, so they are set up on the soft side for coilovers. But they are still significantly stiffer than the stock suspension. Spanuel was comparing them to an MX5 with full track spec coilovers, and they were (obviously) much softer.

The full coilbound condition was caused by two things: 1) There were two guys bouncing up and down in the boot! 2) The Teins had been set up with significant spring preload. The Flex Z must be set up with almost zero spring preload. This is because the damper has quite a lot of travel for a coilover (100mm from rebound to compressed bump stop), and the springs have only 100mm of travel. So if you add spring preload you effectively reduce the spring travel, and the spring goes coilbound before the bump stop can stop it. This was the issue in this case.

I took the measurements then, based on those, reset the spring preload to almost zero. I then had a bounce on the rear, and it felt "normal". Quite stiff compared to stock, but quite soft compared to my track car. This seems a reasonable compromise for the Flez Z coilovers to me, but it's a matter of taste, of course. I should also say that the damping is quite light on the Flex Zs. They were set to full stiff, and the dampers felt reasonable, but by no means harsh. I think I would have expected the full stiff position to be stiffer than this, but that's the way they are. It's not a fault, just a choice.

Spanuel is going to put some miles on them, then make a decision about if he is happy with them or not. He may decide to swap them out for more track focused units in the end.

No-one should be put off from buying Flex Zs. Just be aware that Tein do a full range of coilovers, from road orientated Flex Zs, to full track spec MonoSports. It's important to get the appropriate units for your intended use, and to set them up carefully (or get someone who knows what they are doing to do it for you).

[13Black]

Praise our suspension lord and saviour. This was really starting to confuse me.

[ChrisHolmes]

OK, looks like many got involved with this along the way, but it is worth knowing that Tein did suggest setting the suspension as per the instructions supplied before the many were involved.

Even though we did not supply the kit, I have also had Sam bring the car to us so I could have a look and then contacted Tein with pictures etc and then last night explained exactly how Tein want them set up to stop the coils binding.

Whist I have never ever seen a supply issue Tein have confirmed that the springs are correct for the kit.

Also having fitted many of these kits I know the damper stiffness is fine and have explained to Sam that this kit is nothing like the super stiff BC kit that he was perhaps comparing this kit with.

As above unlike many cheap kits this is not a track orientated kit, but a fast road kit that will give excellent compliance and a nice ride on our nasty roads but is then more than adequate for the normal track day driver to have a lot of fun.

I got involved, because as said above in all the years we have supplied Tein, we have never had a complaint, issue failure or wrong parts supplied.

[spanuel]

I took them off to inspect.
The problem is that you can not apply the slightest bit of preload as the bump stop is the same amount of travel as the spring length. As soon as you apply pre load the spring will bind.
These are a very soft setup which on my local roads allow to bottom out.
I will be moving to mono sport.


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[Stevie_P]

So may be going up for sale then?

[spanuel]

Yeah they are really not my taste.


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[Marda]

Hi,
I have exact same problem with my rear tein flex z.
I also contacted Tein UK with the description of the problem and they said that nobody before had the same issue with flex z on rx8...
hmmmm....seems that they have a short memory problem over there.
It looks to me that Tein miscalculated rear shocks for rx8.

So sad..

This coil bind is not only a problem for comfort of driving, it is also VERY DANGEROUS because of loosing traction on the rear end.

I can order 6kgs spring for the rear. Tein can sell me them for aprox. £84.00, but I dont know is it wise to install.

P.S. I have the same pictures of coil bind sighs on my rears

[13Black]

Um...

Have you read the whole thread?

There was no problem with the units in this case, just setup by the customer.

You are sure you're not in the same boat?

[Marda]

yes I did read, but what about this sentence in last post:

"These are a very soft setup which on my local roads allow to bottom out."

Seems like the problem of bottoming and losing of traction on "standard" road condition is still there.

Offcourse I will remove all of preload on springs and test it.
I will post the result.

cheers and tnx

[New Duke]

It's not too late to join the PZ suspension group buy Marda. But you'll have to hurry. The PZ suspension is cheaper than the Tein Flex, and is designed for your car so there's no faffing.

[Mazda Rotary Parts]

Worth knowing that we have a Tein offer on this link below which ends very soon.

This Tein is staggeringly cheaper than the standard non adjustable suspension mentioned above which offers adjustable platforms to set the ride height where you want it and also offers a much more performance orientated kit for both road and track days !

https://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/v ... 46&t=76327

[PeteH]

Hi,
I have exact same problem with my rear tein flex z.
I also contacted Tein UK with the description of the problem and they said that nobody before had the same issue with flex z on rx8...
hmmmm....seems that they have a short memory problem over there.
It looks to me that Tein miscalculated rear shocks for rx8.

So sad..

This coil bind is not only a problem for comfort of driving, it is also VERY DANGEROUS because of loosing traction on the rear end.

I can order 6kgs spring for the rear. Tein can sell me them for aprox. £84.00, but I dont know is it wise to install.

P.S. I have the same pictures of coil bind sighs on my rears

As said above, you have to set the preload to almost zero with the Flex units. You then set your ride height using the unit's body adjustment, not the spring perch. Coilovers have much more adjustment than standard suspension units, and if you are not 100% sure about how to set them up then it's easy to get it wrong. When properly set up they will produce excellent handling, and most certainly will not be dangerous! You should not buy stiffer rear springs for the units. If you do this you will be moving the roll stiffness balance to the rear of the car, and that will make the car more likely to oversteer.

If you tell us where you are based there may be experienced people on here who can help you set your suspension up.

[warpc0il]

On the members cars that we've worked on (for other unrelated jobs) that had aftermarket coilovers fitted, only one (Ray), had them set properly.

All the others had set the ride height using the preload adjustment, in most case by/for the previous owners.

This wasn't just an issue with Teins but also with other named brands and unbranded "ebay specials".

It's any easy mistake to make and can result in the spring being coil-bound on compression or coming completely loose on rebound extension.

It's sometimes not obvious what all the adjustments do and how they interact.

Setting the preload and ride height correctly transforms the performance of the suspension, both on smooth roads and over the bumps.

On units with adjustable damping, it's also important to set this correctly, noting that some systems only allow control of either compression or rebound. One car we had in to do the brakes had both units on one side set to "full hard" and the other side "full soft"

When replacing the suspension units it's also very important not to tighten the lower wishbone suspension bolts until the car weight is back on the wheels and the body is at the correct ride height. This is because the "rubber" bushes get clamped into position when the bolts are tightened and, if this is done with the wheels hanging (or the suspension overly compressed) then the bushes become torsion springs.

We've seen many examples where people have fitted lowering springs, only to find the car sitting higher than when they started, or get very confused with setting coil-overs for the same reason.

[V8 Power]

The strange thing is that some coilovers that are thought of as high end do not have separate preload and height adjustment.
KW comes to mind.

[RenesisRaceBuggy]

Really high end coilovers never seperate height adjustment (unless it's on a pushrod system) - because that's just wasted space that could be used for more damper stroke.
Seperate ride height and preload adjustment is a street car thing really, because of the breadth of ride heights and setups they have to adapt to.

[Marda]

Today I remove all preload on my rear flex z.
Still not happy with the regular bumps found on roads.I m so consired about traction loss.

There are occasions when even small bump on low speed compress the shock to bumper stop and that awful sound and kick happens.
I am literary afraid of entering the curve with higher speed and not even think about holding the throttle in curves.

I purchased new flex z kit with EDFC Active Pro and very sad with that problem with the rear suspension.
Cannot believe that more of the rx8 Tein flex z owners are not complaining about that

Think that I need to go for a Tein 6kg/mm spring and cross my fingers that this 1kg/mm more will stop bottoming rear dampers and solve this issue.


#New Duke - Thanx for suggestion, but Illl try to stick with Tein, for now.

[New Duke]

Cannot believe that more of the rx8 Tein flex z owners are not complaining about that

Because it seems that either:

A - Yours are faulty. Of course it's possible, but is unlikely considering the background that Clive at MRP gave earlier in this thread.

Or:

B - Waaay more likely: They're setup incorrectly as some of our experts suggested, even if you followed the instruction guide and did your best. Get your work checked by a professional before doing anything else. If the suspension really is bad then you'll have a professional to endorse your view.

I've been in Harrizone's 8 with Tein Flex suspension that was setup correctly and it was very stable... even with his aggressive driving style

[SeeJay]

PeteH has already cautioned you about fitting stiffer rear springs!! Get the setup checked over by someone who knows what they're doing..

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[GreySilver Beast]

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[ChrisHolmes]

Your up early nigel, Germany bound?

[Stevie_P]

Worth knowing that we have a Tein offer on this link below which ends very soon.

This Tein is staggeringly cheaper than the standard non adjustable suspension mentioned above which offers adjustable platforms to set the ride height where you want it and also offers a much more performance orientated kit for both road and track days !

https://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/v ... 46&t=76327

Got to say I'm very tempted with this...