So my engine died today

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Srobo
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So my engine died today

Post by Srobo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:35 am

:x So yeah, my engine died today suddenly!
Started misfiring on the motorway and minutes later went into limp and then died!
RAC came out, looked at the coils and plugs and said they were fine and diagnosed it as the rotor tips!

Only had the car 4 weeks, paid £1650 for it
Is it viable to be repaired or should I sell it spares/repairs and cut my losses?

I love the car and it’s been an absolute dream until today, gutted to say the least

Cheers guys and girls

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by sagarh » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:40 am

How did the RAC check your coils? Do you know when they where last changed? What's the mileage on the car?

I suspect RAC just gave you the stock answer for a rotary engine when they don't really understand the car...

Where are you in the UK? A local member might be able to help...
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Re: So my engine died today

Post by untakenname » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:54 am

The engine wouldn't suddenly die when running due the apex seals/tips it would be a gradual process which would cause hot start issues.
How did the RAC diagnose the plugs as being fine?

It's been a hot day today so it's possible that the misfire has cooked the cat which would cause the the sudden failing or that the fuel pump is marginal which can also cause the same issue.

I'd take off the cat and look at the state of it and see if it will start without it on.

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by Srobo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:24 am

sagarh wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:40 am
How did the RAC check your coils? Do you know when they where last changed? What's the mileage on the car?

I suspect RAC just gave you the stock answer for a rotary engine when they don't really understand the car...

Where are you in the UK? A local member might be able to help...
Not sure I was busy tending my son trying to keep him cool. He said he was an ex rx8 owner and seemed to know his stuff, he suspected the coils first but then said it was a mechanical misfire? So likely tips
Coils were changed ~6 months ago according to previous owner, and 74000 miles located in Gloucester

Thanks for your reply

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by Srobo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:27 am

untakenname wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:54 am
The engine wouldn't suddenly die when running due the apex seals/tips it would be a gradual process which would cause hot start issues.
How did the RAC diagnose the plugs as being fine?

It's been a hot day today so it's possible that the misfire has cooked the cat which would cause the the sudden failing or that the fuel pump is marginal which can also cause the same issue.

I'd take off the cat and look at the state of it and see if it will start without it on.
I don’t know but it all happened within 10 minutes max of me noticing the first misfire, I did originally suspect it may have something to do with the heat!
It’s never had a problem starting either hot or cold

RAC managed to get it to start and it was running very noisily, I had to drive it 100 yards off the motorway for recovery and struggled to get up to 10 mph!!

The cat is brand new, I had it replaced as it had a decat on it, although it did have a slight blow which the guy said could of been a cause?!

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by New Duke » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:14 am

Did you buy it from a private seller or a company? If you bought it from a car trader you can take it back and have them sort it for free. Can't if it was a private sale.

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by 350matt » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:28 am

its not impossible that the the rotor tips have given out but the next step should be to do a compression test as this will tell you the mechanical state of the engine

now while its nice to use a proper rotary tester you can get enough information from a normal piston compression tester
the trick is to remove the 1 way / tyre valve thats in the end of the hose and then watch the needle 'bounce' for each rotor face as they should all be the same
you then make a note of what the figure is and use this site
http://foxed.ca/index.php?page=rotarycalc
to normalise the readings to 250 rpm, for this you'll need to know the cranking speed so you hook up an OBD scan tool and use the datastream to check the engine rpm


are there any engine codes / check engine light?

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by bigpete8 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:36 am

Just to add.... you say cat was changed but certain aftermarket ones are known to fail quickly.
Do you know what was fitted?
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Re: So my engine died today

Post by Honkytonk » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:47 am

Definitely worth posting where in the UK you are, as there will probably be a member not too far away who can come and give a more thorough diagnosis before you make any decisions - they might even have a proper rotary compression tester they could bring along.

If you've got Mazda rev C coils it'd be worth looking at them and checking the base to see if they have white heat marks on them, size of those can indicate the health of the coils. Hot days in traffic are not a Rotary's friend!

Sorry to hear you've had this experience so early on. If it is the apex seals that have gone, as NewDuke says, first course is to see if you can get some money back. Otherwise unfortunately it's a rebuild which can run to about £2-3000 depending on where you go and what options you go with.

However, the plus side of this is you will essentially have a brand new engine, and it'll be covered by the rebuilders warranty (most of whom allow you to extend it out). If that kind of money isn't something you can cope with, then you can look around for a replacement pre-owned engine, these normally run in the £300-500 range, but of course you're rolling the dice as they may have issues of their own. It might be worth talking to some of the specialists around the country to see what they have in stock, and then if you don't want to fit it yourself someone like Luke Murdoch who's a traveling mechanic will happily come and do it for you.

You can part out 8's, and make decent money back, but it depends on if it's a special edition or not and what state things like the radio firmware/drivetrain/interior are in which requires a decent amount of specialist knowledge.

Best of luck, I hope it's something simple and easily fixed, as you've obviously fallen like we all have for the car's charms. Post up where in the country you are and we'll see if any members want to come and help.
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Re: So my engine died today

Post by Vj4sothername » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:57 am

Just to add to the above, where are you based? A club member may be able to confirm what the issue is.

If it does require a rebuild or replacement Luke Murdoch mentioned by honkytonk can swap them over at your location and he may have an engine in good order in stock himself.

Used engines can be a bit hit or miss but Luke knows his onions and will be able to advise.
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Re: So my engine died today

Post by warpc0il » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:02 am

First thing I'd be doing is check the MAF for signs of an oil burp, particularly as the symptoms match.

Did the "misfire" start just after acceleration or an uphill section?

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by ChrisHolmes » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:47 am

I am in Cheltenham and have a rotary compression tester but couldn’t get over to you before Tuesday 11th August to give the car a once over.
Let me know if you want me to come over and have a look and listen.
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Re: So my engine died today

Post by Srobo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:22 pm

New Duke wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:14 am
Did you buy it from a private seller or a company? If you bought it from a car trader you can take it back and have them sort it for free. Can't if it was a private sale.
Private sale unfortunately

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by Srobo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:26 pm

350matt wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:28 am
its not impossible that the the rotor tips have given out but the next step should be to do a compression test as this will tell you the mechanical state of the engine

now while its nice to use a proper rotary tester you can get enough information from a normal piston compression tester
the trick is to remove the 1 way / tyre valve thats in the end of the hose and then watch the needle 'bounce' for each rotor face as they should all be the same
you then make a note of what the figure is and use this site
http://foxed.ca/index.php?page=rotarycalc
to normalise the readings to 250 rpm, for this you'll need to know the cranking speed so you hook up an OBD scan tool and use the datastream to check the engine rpm


are there any engine codes / check engine light?
Can’t remember the code specifically it it said cylinder 2 misfire detected or something to that effect.
I’m on holiday now until Friday so will double check when I get home

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by Srobo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:26 pm

warpc0il wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:02 am
First thing I'd be doing is check the MAF for signs of an oil burp, particularly as the symptoms match.

Did the "misfire" start just after acceleration or an uphill section?

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
Started while accelerating on the motorway

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by Srobo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:27 pm

ChrisHolmes wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:47 am
I am in Cheltenham and have a rotary compression tester but couldn’t get over to you before Tuesday 11th August to give the car a once over.
Let me know if you want me to come over and have a look and listen.
That would be amazing if you could? I’m on holiday until Friday anyway so 11th or anytime you’re free would be perfect thank you

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by Srobo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:28 pm

Vj4sothername wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:57 am
Just to add to the above, where are you based? A club member may be able to confirm what the issue is.

If it does require a rebuild or replacement Luke Murdoch mentioned by honkytonk can swap them over at your location and he may have an engine in good order in stock himself.

Used engines can be a bit hit or miss but Luke knows his onions and will be able to advise.
I’m based in Gloucester. I’m on holiday now for a week but I’ll look like murdoch up once I’m back, thank you

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by warpc0il » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:53 pm

Srobo wrote:
warpc0il wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:02 am
First thing I'd be doing is check the MAF for signs of an oil burp, particularly as the symptoms match.

Did the "misfire" start just after acceleration or an uphill section?

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
Started while accelerating on the motorway
This is when oil burps most often occur.

The oil level can be a bit high and not cause a problem for miles around town or cruising along, until you go for an overtake or accelerate up a motorway slip road, when all hell breaks loose...

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by osman » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:38 pm

Had a similar thing happen to mine, a side seal let go.
Could try taking plugs out one rotor at a time and spin it by hand and listen for 3 puffs per rotor

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by Srobo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:06 pm

warpc0il wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:53 pm
Srobo wrote:
warpc0il wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:02 am
First thing I'd be doing is check the MAF for signs of an oil burp, particularly as the symptoms match.

Did the "misfire" start just after acceleration or an uphill section?

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
Started while accelerating on the motorway
This is when oil burps most often occur.

The oil level can be a bit high and not cause a problem for miles around town or cruising along, until you go for an overtake or accelerate up a motorway slip road, when all hell breaks loose...

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
I’ll check the maf as soon as I’m home off holiday. I did check it just after I bought it as advised for a different problem (which turned out to be the decat) and it was clean

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by Srobo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:09 pm

bigpete8 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:36 am
Just to add.... you say cat was changed but certain aftermarket ones are known to fail quickly.
Do you know what was fitted?
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Re: So my engine died today

Post by Nickp47 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:13 pm

Those cats aren’t the the greatest but they would not normally break down in as little as four weeks

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by v-rex » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:01 pm

Srobo wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:09 pm
React catalytic converters from eurocarparts. Part no:724680060
If its useful info, I have that CAT on mine. It's been fine so far, about 9 months since I put it on, ~2000 miles so far.

Apologies I don't have anything else useful to add than getting it compression tested, and all the other excellent advice others have given.

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Re: So my engine died today

Post by ChrisHolmes » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:34 pm

Srobo wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:27 pm
ChrisHolmes wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:47 am
I am in Cheltenham and have a rotary compression tester but couldn’t get over to you before Tuesday 11th August to give the car a once over.
Let me know if you want me to come over and have a look and listen.
That would be amazing if you could? I’m on holiday until Friday anyway so 11th or anytime you’re free would be perfect thank you
PM me your contact details and address please.
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