black oil

Place for discussions about the RX-8
User avatar
13Black
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 3424
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:14 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Leicestershire
Has thanked: 472 times
Been thanked: 591 times
Contact:

Re: black oil

Post by 13Black » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:12 pm

Invoices Pete. Even clueless folk in sheds like me give them out :D

Still, reckon there wouldn't be any trends noticeable enough? 5k road use. 10k Road use. 3k with 3 track days. Bla.
-= Rotormelon Money Pit Build of Tasteless Questionable Bodgery =-
Experimelon 183whp rebuild | Rotary Revs D585s | PZ Suspension | Hawk & Yellowstuff pads | Extra steering lock | Custom exhaust | Added rearward flames of glory | Unnecessarily repurposed ball gags

User avatar
PeteH
Committee Member
Committee Member
Posts: 4453
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:26 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Custom
Location: Suffolk
Has thanked: 149 times
Been thanked: 642 times

Re: black oil

Post by PeteH » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:38 pm

In 10k a well used and tracked 8 may have been topped up 20 times. All of those top ups would, of course, have been with the original high quality oil, as specified by a respected outfit such as yourself. It won't have been topped up with whatever was left at the bottom of the mis-labelled contained at the back of the shed, resting on the dead hedgehog you've been meaning to move for two years, behind the dead lawnmower that last worked when you owned a house with a lawn. Hang on, was it actually lawn mower oil? Never mind, it's all four stroke oil, so it'll be fine. I'm not adding much anyway. And I'll dilute it with proper oil when I next go and see Nick.

To confirm. This never happens. Never. No-one has ever done anything like this. So you can be confident in your analysis.
RX-8 in Time Attack 2016 (2nd in class) & 2017 (Championship Winner)
http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/vi ... 04&t=69554

User avatar
Harrizone
Founder Member
Founder Member
Posts: 6721
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:23 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Winning Blue
Location: Southend-on-Sea
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 180 times

Re: black oil

Post by Harrizone » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:53 pm

I don't remember you ever seeing in my shed. :paranoid:
Fully bridged engine by ER, & Revi air scoop Full Mazdaspeed kit, bull bars & rear fog, short shifter, Dotz wheels, Falken FK452 225/45/18 (road) Federal 595 RS-R 235/40/18 (track) Racing Brake 4-pot front calipers ET500 pads (road), XT960 pads (track), RB header, cat & Catback & ARB's & adjustable drop links F&R, Tein Flex coilovers, BHR& leads, K&N filter.

RenesisRaceBuggy
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 986
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:58 pm
Colour: Custom
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: black oil

Post by RenesisRaceBuggy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:54 pm

You just couldn't control variables like temperature, moisture levels, etc, anywhere near enough to get a trend without having millions of miles of accurate logs. Best thing you can do really is enough research, reading and knowledge about the oil itself, viscosity vs temperature vs speeds, add packs, etc, etc, to make an informed decision to start with and cross fingers ;)

User avatar
13Black
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 3424
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:14 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Leicestershire
Has thanked: 472 times
Been thanked: 591 times
Contact:

Re: black oil

Post by 13Black » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:37 pm

PeteH wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:38 pm
It won't have been topped up with whatever was left at the bottom of the mis-labelled contained at the back of the shed, resting on the dead hedgehog you've been meaning to move for two years
tenor.gif
tenor.gif (807.99 KiB) Viewed 123 times


OMP bypass adapters, no?
Fuel bypassing seals and contaminating the oil shouldn't be that affected by putting new oil in surely.

Have people here used oil labs for this kind of thing and is that the reason for the negativity?
It's hard to tell around here sometimes...
Are random variables like that enough to sway the effects compared to 5,000 miles (for example) to make it unintelligible data?

Genuine question - I never have used such facilities and will reluctantly listen to anyone who hasn't either.
-= Rotormelon Money Pit Build of Tasteless Questionable Bodgery =-
Experimelon 183whp rebuild | Rotary Revs D585s | PZ Suspension | Hawk & Yellowstuff pads | Extra steering lock | Custom exhaust | Added rearward flames of glory | Unnecessarily repurposed ball gags

User avatar
wiggles
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 1254
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:25 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Galaxy Grey
Location: Newport
Has thanked: 84 times
Been thanked: 113 times

Re: black oil

Post by wiggles » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:40 pm

Dave is probably the man to answer this one
Project thread Galaxy grey 231 - Street Port, Enkei 9J wheels, Tein coilovers, Jperformance exhaust

User avatar
13Black
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 3424
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:14 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Leicestershire
Has thanked: 472 times
Been thanked: 591 times
Contact:

Re: black oil

Post by 13Black » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:58 pm

I would have thought PeteH and RRB would have tinkered with such things.
-= Rotormelon Money Pit Build of Tasteless Questionable Bodgery =-
Experimelon 183whp rebuild | Rotary Revs D585s | PZ Suspension | Hawk & Yellowstuff pads | Extra steering lock | Custom exhaust | Added rearward flames of glory | Unnecessarily repurposed ball gags

xamtex
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:24 pm
RX-8: PZ
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: nuneaton
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: black oil

Post by xamtex » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:00 pm

this is when you have a problem with black oil?

User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 18411
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 182 times
Been thanked: 683 times
Contact:

Re: black oil

Post by warpc0il » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:06 pm

That's the result you can get if some idiot mixes castor oil (e.g. Castrol R) with a standard mineral oil #-o
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ

User avatar
PeteH
Committee Member
Committee Member
Posts: 4453
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:26 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Custom
Location: Suffolk
Has thanked: 149 times
Been thanked: 642 times

Re: black oil

Post by PeteH » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:46 pm

13Black wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:37 pm
OMP bypass adapters, no?
Fuel bypassing seals and contaminating the oil shouldn't be that affected by putting new oil in surely.

Have people here used oil labs for this kind of thing and is that the reason for the negativity?
It's hard to tell around here sometimes...
Are random variables like that enough to sway the effects compared to 5,000 miles (for example) to make it unintelligible data?

Genuine question - I never have used such facilities and will reluctantly listen to anyone who hasn't either.
Never personally used them. In F1, oil analysis is used to examine the quantity and type of metals in suspension, simply to identify if the engine / gearbox / diff have any developing faults. The actual health of the oil is of no concern because it doesn't stay in long enough. In road car development the oil analysis is done exclusively by the oil companies, and they supply products to the OEM that they have validated during the normal car validation process. In this case the oil companies are equally concerned about keeping the metal bits healthy, and keeping the oil healthy. The car manufacturers are, of course, always pushing the oil industry for longer service intervals.

I can't really think of any independent organisations that might conduct independent research into the long term degradation of engine oils. The best I can think of is maybe groups like "Which", and "NHTSA" in the US, or possibly University researchers working on behalf of oil companies.

I really do think that getting any statistically meaningful results, given all the variables, is most unlikely. Not being negative, just realistic. Hey, I'm supposed to be someone who loves tests and statistics, and measuring stuff.... ;)
RX-8 in Time Attack 2016 (2nd in class) & 2017 (Championship Winner)
http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/vi ... 04&t=69554

User avatar
AndyBrad
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:28 pm
RX-8: R3
Colour: Aurora Blue Mica
Location: Huddersfield
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: black oil

Post by AndyBrad » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:10 am

theres a load of info on bob the oil guys page that might be of interest

User avatar
13Black
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 3424
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:14 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Leicestershire
Has thanked: 472 times
Been thanked: 591 times
Contact:

Re: black oil

Post by 13Black » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:22 am

PeteH wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:46 pm
stuff +
I really do think that getting any statistically meaningful results, given all the variables, is most unlikely. Not being negative, just realistic. Hey, I'm supposed to be someone who loves tests and statistics, and measuring stuff.... ;)

See, that's more like it :D

That's fair enough then.
I stumbled on these chaps a while back. Nice little website, but that doesn't mean that their services are much good of course:
TheOilLab
Just made me wonder that such data could be gathered.
-= Rotormelon Money Pit Build of Tasteless Questionable Bodgery =-
Experimelon 183whp rebuild | Rotary Revs D585s | PZ Suspension | Hawk & Yellowstuff pads | Extra steering lock | Custom exhaust | Added rearward flames of glory | Unnecessarily repurposed ball gags

User avatar
AndyBrad
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:28 pm
RX-8: R3
Colour: Aurora Blue Mica
Location: Huddersfield
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: black oil

Post by AndyBrad » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:16 am

itll get expensive very quickly. My concern is that you would see wear on the houses as an increase in chromium content or other such. But would you do anything about it?

Post Reply

Return to “RX-8 Discussion”