No longer a member, but still about.

A chance to bid farewell
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Dr. FrankenRex
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No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:02 pm

Hey Guys,

I’ve contemplated posting this for some time and, as some of you may have noticed, my membership with the OC has lapsed. This isn’t to say I’m gone for good, never to return, it’s more that I don’t really see the value that the OC offers anymore to me personally. I'm not leaving as I'll still be floating about on here, and I'm certainly not selling my 8, I just couldn't cease my membership without putting this message out there in the hope things will change.

Ultimately I am being a little considered in the voicing of my opinion and how I choose to voice it, because I don’t feel that the reason I see little value from the club is the fault of anyone at all, more that the club has drifted to where it is now.

I also want to jump in before the people say “Join the committee and be the change you want to see!” and say that I A) don’t have the time and B) am unsure as to how the club could be changed at this point in time to better reflect the needs and requirements of the owners.

Value wise I don’t see the point in paying when (somewhat arrogantly, sure) I am pretty knowledgeable when it comes to the RX8, I don’t participate in the local meets all that often and I don’t really find myself participating in the member’s section of the forum all that much. OK I’ve got a project thread which I now can’t update, but is that worth the renewal fee all by itself?

I also appreciate that the value of the OC is not just ‘what can I get from it’ and partially a ‘contribute to keep it going’ state of affairs with hosting fees and such to consider, as well as the tea, bacon and whatever that is taken to events – but it seems to me that a lot of what goes in to the club from the many somewhat goes to serve the few that do attend meetings. I know it’s been brought up multiple times, but a regular publication would help in making it feel more interesting and more valuable, as well as social meets outside of a meal or a track day. This is where I’m maybe a bit odd, but the thought of going to JapFest, Simply Japanese or the like AGAIN and seeing the same old same old every year is getting a bit tiring. I went up the Caffeine and Machine a while ago and it was far more interesting with only a handful of cars there – perhaps trying to find something different or engaging for the members to do would be more beneficial?

The rotary engine has such an enigma to it to any petrol head, and the RX8 is no exception. With numbers on a downward spiral is it worth looking at a merger with MRC? Is it worth creating an actual Facebook presence? Does the RX8OC need rebuilding from the ground up to make it more relevant to the current membership now that the car is much more affordable? I can’t answer these questions, which is why I wouldn’t join the committee – I don’t have the answers needed to steer the club in a new direction to keep people happy.

The fact that there are few traders who see the value of being a part of the OC, and membership numbers on the downward trend* something needs to happen as it would be sad to see the RX8 OC go and the only thing left in its place a couple of Facebook groups that leave members dispersed and separate.


*No figures have been released, despite others requesting them a few times, however I’ll eat my hat if paying membership hasn’t decreased over the past 12-18 months.
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Scartlead » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:29 pm

In a similar position too Dan, whether to renew my recently lapsed membership. Finding myself coming on here less and less, which is a shame.

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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Dazza44 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:37 pm

I didn't renew my membership which lapsed a few months ago,tbh Didn't really see the justification in paying for renewal again unfortunately.

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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by PeteH » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:40 pm

Sorry to see you go Dan, but I fully understand. You did a great job to raise the profile of our Instagram presence, as a valued member of the Comms team. As you know, it's very difficult for a small Club to provide enough resource to stay on top of all the social media outlets. We have a presence on most platforms, and some members (like yourself) contribute to content. We do generate a fair bit of traffic, but we could do so much more if the Club was larger.

Do you think you might be able to expand on your comment "Is it worth creating an actual Facebook presence?" We do have an actual Facebook presence (https://www.facebook.com/rx8oc/), and Adam does a great job to keep posting notifications for our events. Are you saying that the Club should do more on that platform? Or that more Club members and Officers should take a more active role? Ideally, perhaps, we should, but we are pretty focused towards the forum being our main platform. Facebook is a rather different entity, and would lead to a rather different type of Club (perhaps that's what you'd like to see?)
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Davemitch » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:20 pm

Please, for the love of god, dont turn in to a facebook rx8 group! How the facebook group runs already is good in my opinion without naming other groups that are basically the same 10 people telling everyone else they're wrong and saying how much better than the forum they are! Yet where do they all need to go for the guides on how to do anything? Or specialist knowledge for things that arent a 'common' fault?

Side note, been in on a group buy every year since joining and they themselves have saved more than my membership (even though they reside in the boot still they will go on 1 day!)
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:52 pm

PeteH wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:40 pm
Do you think you might be able to expand on your comment "Is it worth creating an actual Facebook presence?" We do have an actual Facebook presence (https://www.facebook.com/rx8oc/), and Adam does a great job to keep posting notifications for our events. Are you saying that the Club should do more on that platform? Or that more Club members and Officers should take a more active role? Ideally, perhaps, we should, but we are pretty focused towards the forum being our main platform. Facebook is a rather different entity, and would lead to a rather different type of Club (perhaps that's what you'd like to see?)
I didn't mean to detract from the work that Adam has done raising our facebook presence. My comment, I guess, was more aimed at the way in which people wish to absorb content these days. I don't know this, but I suspect the average age of a 'traditional' owner's club forum user has increased, with the younger people moving to outlets like Facebook etc.

There are, and always will be, exceptions - but with the RX8 becomming the price point it is then it is inevitable that younger people will own them than ever before - it's a case, I suppose, of trying to cater for everyone.

I fully agree with DaveMitch's comment below - there are a great many clubs whose sole purpose seems to be to try and prove they are better than the OC, or just generally prove a point about something or other - and that is certainly not what the OC should become.

As I said, if I had an answer or a vision as to how I perceived the RX8 OC could grow and go from strength to strength then I would volunteer to be on the committee and do my best to enact the change but I honestly can't see where the club could go, let alone will go.

If things change over time (as I'm sure they will) then I may well find myself joining again in the future. I'd also be lying if the fact I have a baby due next month means that the RX8 will get a lot less loving over the next 6 months or so, which in turn means the potential value of a membership decreases again, but that honestly isn't the only reason as I've tried to put across above.

I also don't want my words and thoughts to come across as negative towards any of the people who work hard to make the club what it is, they all do a great job (FOR FREE!) to keep the dorito spinning, but I wonder if the RX8 OC is the old D585 coil and needs someone to evolve it in to the RRP Mk.II coils for the future generations...

(Couldn't resist trying to stir up a coil debate again, for old time's sake ;) )
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Dom-PZ » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:56 pm

This is interesting, I'd compare it with the Westfield club where people also went through a spot of not sensing the value of membership, albeit a few years back. I'll list the top three things that keeps me a member there - costs are similar so hopefully it's worthy comparison:

1. Regular magazine. It's not that big, mostly consists of a few write-ups of different car projects, motorsport and reports from the local areas. Only comes out once a quarter but it's really good at keeping the membership engaged, particularly those who don't go online much or feel the need/ability to contribute to the forum
2. Insurance discounts. This is where I justify the membership cost. I save on my renewal every year and the discount is usable on all policies through the broker. It easily covers the annual membership costs! If the club doesn't do this, it really should. If it does, rave about it!
3. Local events. I don't often go to our monthly meet (maybe 6 times a year), but we also organise track days, either as part of a public track day or as a private one at Blyton, Curborough or Llandow. I think there's a meet about an hour or so from me, but it's those little 'special' events that I like.

Having said all of that, I'm mostly sticking around because I need to learn a lot more about the engine! I love it so much, I'm giving strong consideration to losing 100bhp and putting one in the Westfield... ironically I was hoping to see more updates on the progress of the race extension porting doofit. Doh :D
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:57 pm

Dr. FrankenRex wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:52 pm
PeteH wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:40 pm
Do you think you might be able to expand on your comment "Is it worth creating an actual Facebook presence?" We do have an actual Facebook presence (https://www.facebook.com/rx8oc/), and Adam does a great job to keep posting notifications for our events. Are you saying that the Club should do more on that platform? Or that more Club members and Officers should take a more active role? Ideally, perhaps, we should, but we are pretty focused towards the forum being our main platform. Facebook is a rather different entity, and would lead to a rather different type of Club (perhaps that's what you'd like to see?)
I didn't mean to detract from the work that Adam has done raising our facebook presence. My comment, I guess, was more aimed at the way in which people wish to absorb content these days. I don't know this, but I suspect the average age of a 'traditional' owner's club forum user has increased, with the younger people moving to outlets like Facebook etc.

There are, and always will be, exceptions - but with the RX8 becomming the price point it is then it is inevitable that younger people will own them than ever before - it's a case, I suppose, of trying to cater for everyone.

I fully agree with DaveMitch's comment below - there are a great many clubs whose sole purpose seems to be to try and prove they are better than the OC, or just generally prove a point about something or other - and that is certainly not what the OC should become.

As I said, if I had an answer or a vision as to how I perceived the RX8 OC could grow and go from strength to strength then I would volunteer to be on the committee and do my best to enact the change but I honestly can't see where the club could go, let alone will go.

If things change over time (as I'm sure they will) then I may well find myself joining again in the future. I'd also be lying if the fact I have a baby due next month means that the RX8 will get a lot less loving over the next 6 months or so, which in turn means the potential value of a membership decreases again, but that honestly isn't the only reason as I've tried to put across above.

I also don't want my words and thoughts to come across as negative towards any of the people who work hard to make the club what it is, they all do a great job (FOR FREE!) to keep the dorito spinning, but I wonder if the RX8 OC is the old D585 coil and needs someone to evolve it in to the RRP Mk.II coils for the future generations...

(Couldn't resist trying to stir up a coil debate again, for old time's sake ;) )
I've quoted as a way of expanding my thoughts without it becomming muddled in the previous message. Has it been thought about to post individual pages to facebook, as and when a 'thread of the day' type thing comes about? Or perhaps have articles that have been written for spin magazine posted up.

I guess what I'm saying is that the OC pages could perhaps function like Pistonheads? Articles written by members, regular features etc. all with comment sections of their own, but have the forum also there behind it?

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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by jondkent » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:04 pm

I've not got much to add here aside from it's only older people who think younger people use Facebook still. Stats show that the age of (active) users there is getting progressively older. Just a thought :)





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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by mi60o0 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:26 pm

Club membership is less than 30 a year.
If you go to show you have free refreshments and food.
You have few discounts not as before.
This forum probably cost to run. Pay for server etc.
I don't think 28 pound will make some one poor.
You don't have every second person to use C word. Also I don't see many young people with us that's correct they are more show and shine and in Facebook.
Any way everyone to their own.
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Mpv2k3 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:28 pm

£26 and get a £5 voucher back
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by goodeggbob » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:32 pm

How can the membership fee be a problem,it's 50p a week. if all the contributors who were ( pretty knowledgeable about the rx8) were to leave us,then i,and many more like me would be up sh@t creek.
Being a member here isn't just about what you get out of it, it's also about what you can offer,however small your contribution,neither is it confined to the rx8, freind ships,camaraderie,and just having a bit of fun all play their part, i for one have no complaints about the way the club runs ,and am very happy to continue supporting it,keep it up,rob.
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Ranjan » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:09 pm

Dan,

You can make comments about the direction the club is taking and its future role in an ever-dwindling market but one thing you cannot not pay is the membership if you intend to keep the RX8.

In this ever cynical, something for nothing world we find yourselves in the measly sum we pay for membership must be the bargain of the year. Every year I have paid the fee I have made it back within a month and I am truly, being accurate. Those discount codes are blooming incredible; I just have to buy two sets of brake pads from EMC and I have made my membership back and I buy at least 10 sets a year. Plus, the club gives you a £5 gift voucher for renewing :scratch: :giggle:

Ranjan.
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Ainmhidh » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:17 pm

Dan and I have talked a bit outside the forum and it's obviously everyone's choice as to whether they pay for full membership or not. There's still a good community feel in general and everyone (who behaves appropriately) is welcome to hang about and discuss whose coils are better than whose (though maybe leave that one another 6 months eh?). If folks that don't continue paying feel like coming back they're more than welcome.
If everyone doesn't renew and new folks don't join then the club would have to change or close as the hosting fees etc. for the forum couldn't be paid. FOR CLARITY, we are NOT anywhere close to that, or even concerned by it as it stands. without looking for the precise figures (busy, busy) I'd estimate the average age of a paying member to be around 40-45, which for a potential audience of 17 year olds and up doesn't feel wrong to me?
Hope everything goes well with the new arrival Dan, and that you still manage to get *some* sleep! Oh, and that that RE/bridge combination doesn't wake the baby if you 'sneak' out for a bit! When you get time between nappy changes, we'll still be here answering oil questions!
ranjan wrote:Plus, the club gives you a £5 gift voucher for renewing :scratch: :giggle:
Always giving back, this club. I'll remember not to put your voucher in next year if you like Ranjan ? :lol:
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by V8 Power » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:32 pm

Hi Dan
I respect and applaud you for coming on hear to explain your decision.
This owners club is truly one of the best, most friendly there is and I speak as having experienced others.
The membership is knowledgable and there are some truly great experts on here who are only to willing to pass on their advice.
The membership is worth it alone for this knowledge sharing let alone the discounts.
I too do not attend many events as I have a very busy home/family life and also I am not very sociable but I do not hesitate in paying the membership fee.
I became a committee member to hopefully give something back in a way I could. The owners club will follow a natural path that others have walked upon previously but please remember that what ever the future holds there are many passionate owners and committee members who will give much of their time and passion until it is no longer viable.
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by ChrisHolmes » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:34 pm

Thank you Dan and everyone else who has posted above for your open and actually very positive, in my view, comments. The major negative is to be "losing" Dan as his project thread and contribution overall to the club is/was significant.
The good news is that Dan is going to be "lurking" on the forum and hopefully may perhaps pop 50p a week into his piggy bank and rejoin. Once the first year of parenthood has been survived!
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by brix79 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:37 am

I think it fair to say that much of the feeling raised here follows a similar theme the Club has faced over the last 5-10 years.
Ultimately it's impossible to provide a membership experience that suits everyone.

It's important that these things can be discussed sensibly.

Yes, perhaps those who participate in Club activities do appear to benefit more, but that is partly the idea. It's about encouraging people to join in, and be comfortable doing it.
What the Club offers, and has offered for some time is also a bit of an escape from the ever connected myriad of social platforms. There is a place for it, but I for one enjoy the fact that what I contribute here, isn't shared all over the place. Does it also contribute in making it more difficult to attract new members? Possibly.

At the end of the day, it takes a lot of time and effort to try and consider these topics, and as has been mentioned, it's not that simple.

One of the things that encourages me most are the positive comments, like many of those above, and not just in this thread.

But that's not to say that Dan or anyone else who has chosen not to renew don't have valid points from their own perspective. I respect their current stance, as I believe the majority of members do. Which in itself is another great aspect of the forum and the Club.
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Paul_13 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:44 am

Please do not turn into a Facebook based forum, I despise it.

In my opinion, this is one of the most active forums I have been on in the last few years and I think it has a very positive atmosphere.

A number of the peugeot forums (please don't shoot me) have died a death. (205gtidrivers/306oc/306gti6.com)

It's good to see that this forum is thriving and has a large number of active (and helpful) members. If people start making posts saying "i'm leaving" it really does put a bad message across to the others.

And please for the love of god, do not turn into a Facebook group
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by boosted » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:59 am

Hey its only 30quid...i dont even own an rx8...
Recently on hols my membership elasped...i couldnt view builds etc...i think of it as a magazine subscription, you pay to get the content. Nothing in life is free and sometimes a charge is required to keep the riffraff out...lol.

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GreySilver Beast (Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:08 am) • goodeggbob (Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:41 pm) • nightfire10 (Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:07 pm) • Shagrington (Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:42 pm) • SeeJay (Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:55 pm)
231 streetported Rx8 renny powered Westfield kit race car.
92 Rx7 fd3s stock twins..est.320bhp. Track car.

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Dr. FrankenRex
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:59 am

In response to all the replies, I would like to reiterate that I'm not leaving leaving, just not renewing.

I would also like to explain why I chose to post. I didn't choose to post so that lots of other members go "He's right, I'm not renewing either!", and I didn't post it to appear ungrateful of the way the club is run or anything like that.

I really have valued this club over the past few years of membership, but in my decision not to renew I thought it would be remiss of me to not explain my reasons publicly to try and spark a small change which I think the club needs. Ultimately I might be sat here speaking my mind and everyone else in the club (both committee, member and non-members alike) shaking their heads saying that they are perfectly happy with how the club is run - if so then great! But what might happen is people read what I have to say and it nudges the big machine of the OC towards something better or different. I may well join again when I become more active with the car, or I might not, I will - as I have done at this point - weigh up what value there is for me in it.

I also understand Rob's and Ranjan's points above about joining not because I benefit, but because it's a nice community to be a part of which I should want to support. Unfortunately that is not the case for me right now, but that may change in the future.

I'll still float about, and perhaps any of the little bits I do end up doing I will post up in the 'What have you done to your RX8 today' thread so people can still see - even though I doubt it'll be much.

I honestly don't know if change is what the OC needs, or whether it's just me thinking it needs it, but if I didn't say anything and sat here annoyed it hasn't changed, surely that's worse than paying my 50p a week and moaning all the time?
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ChrisHolmes (Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:10 am)

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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by njkmr » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:16 am

Crowd funding
I will start off with 50p in the pot...!
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Dr. FrankenRex (Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:32 am)

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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by ChrisHolmes » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:21 am

Thanks Dan, it is often very difficult to put feelings and thought reasoning into the written word but I think you have done this very well, especially emphasising that there is a difference between leaving and simply not renewing.
I am a member of the BMW Owners Club and have yet to attend any local of other events that they organise because they seem to always clash with RX8OC or personal happenings, but I do receive a very nice magazine every month. It would be a chalk and cheese scenarios to compare the two clubs directly given that the BMWOC has several thousand members and an ever growing vehicle parc but both clubs exist primarily, as any club does I suppose to provide a sense of belonging and support to members who enjoy a common interest, be that cars, tennis, darts, ping pong or whatever.
I think there is a saying along the lines of "To build the future we must learn from the past and improve the present"
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Dr. FrankenRex (Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:39 pm)
Supercharged
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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by goodeggbob » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:53 pm

Boosted has put it very well,a bit like a magazine subscription. whilst you may not need it all the time,it's always there to drop onto should you require help etc,this is not meant to sound offensive,but floating on the side lines is a bit like some random reading the magazine you have bought over your shoulder,and asking can i have that when you've finished.
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ChrisHolmes (Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:59 pm)

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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:39 pm

goodeggbob wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:53 pm
Boosted has put it very well,a bit like a magazine subscription. whilst you may not need it all the time,it's always there to drop onto should you require help etc,this is not meant to sound offensive,but floating on the side lines is a bit like some random reading the magazine you have bought over your shoulder,and asking can i have that when you've finished.
I understand your meaning, and the sentiment behind it, but I don't think we're going to agree on the principle.

To continue down the magazine subscription comparison, I would say it's more that I've had the subscription for a while, but the backcatalogue that I have in my possession is sufficient for my changing needs and thus I don't see value in continuing the subscription. If my focus returns, I'll re-subscribe, or if the magazine begins to offer something more in tune with what I want to consume then I would do the same.

Afterall, a magazine is not a charity and you only buy a magazine because you enjoy the content.
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ChrisHolmes (Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:00 pm)

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Re: No longer a member, but still about.

Post by Eddie_r32 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:05 pm

I have to say anyone commenting about Dans departure who hasn't been a member at long as Dan has is a bit comical, anyway Dan will always be a massive member to me
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Dr. FrankenRex (Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:23 pm)
2007 Galaxy grey 231.
RRP Parts: Full bridge, long tube header, cofs + tanks, pulleys, engine mounts, oil injectors, remap, race cat.
Other: Greddy sump, Autoexe exhaust, autoexe brake brace, ingalls engine brace, ultra racing f+r strut brace, hsd coilovers, whiteline Arbs, 4 pot brakes, r3 Diff, r3 interior and lots more

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