Looking to join the RX8 family!

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Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by MZ8 »

I always liked the RX8 and now after years of wanting one and being scared by all the rumors and bad reputation, I have finally decided to look for one to buy.

I have been doing a lot of research about the RX8. Reading and watching buyer's guides, reading forums posts everywhere and doing all I can to educate myself about the car.

One thing I saw recommended many times is, it's probably a better option to buy one for cheap, which you know needs an engine rebuild, so you can make sure the engine is good and will be taken good care from now on.

So I set myself out on this path.

I have never been in one, let alone driven one. But today I went to look at my first one. Unfortunately, based on my limited knowledge of these cars, the example I saw doesn't seem to be a good one.

Cranked the engine and I thought it somehow sounded like a new starter. I asked and the answer was, yes, new starter. Wasn't an immediate start. But also didn't take long. Very loud starter though. This is the first RX8 I have ever been in. So maybe it is supposed to sound like that.

Left the engine idling for a while as I looked around the car. At first, no white smoke and engine running smooth. Then lots of white smoke started coming out and never went away and the engine after a bit of the white smoke show, started idling rough.

It was very difficult to see anything under the car. But there was something hanging from the engine and touching the ground. Looked like some sort of belt at first. Like one of those cargo belts one uses to tie cargo. Looked wide and flatter. But looking closer maybe some sort of hose. Don't know what it was.

It looks like the sills have been recently painted.

So safe to say it is better to walk away from this one? Or if bought really cheap, it is still worth it to buy it? MOT runs out in June by the way.

I have another possible option to look at. Seller says the engine was rebuilt with a Cryo Kit from Atkins Rotary and that it starts sporadically but crashes again. In the price also includes a second engine and a lot of other parts and extras. If the price is right, is it worth it looking at this one? The car looks in good condition and he says no rust. What could be the cause for the engine starting only sporadically and then dying again?

Thanks in advance for any help. I have always loved this unique cars. I have had a RX7 long time ago. Now that I have kids, the RX8 with its practical back seats and rear doors are a great fit. Sitting in it felt so special. So I hope I'm making the right decision of ignoring all the warnings and buying one. It is to be my daily driver by the way. ;)
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by Shagrington »

Hi and :welcome: MZ8. :) It is true that the more recent advice seems to be to look at the bodywork before anything else - the cost of the various pre-emptive things like new coils, leads and plugs or even the cost of an engine rebuild from one of the reputable rebuilders is a known price that you can budget for if you get the car knowing it may be needed. The cost of fixing rust is something that can't be guessed at as it may be a lot or a little depending where and how bad the rust is.

Someone more mechanically astute than me will be along to offer opinions on the car you saw (although that doesn't sound great even to me) and the second one. Who did the rebuild, was it a DIY one or was it done by a specialist?

If you add your location to your profile it will help people to maybe point you at anything local to you given travelling long distances isn't so easy right now.

Have you looked at the club members' cars for sale? viewforum.php?f=145
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by SmuttyHutty »

:whathesaid:

Some top tips there. I would echo the main ones - pop your location in your profile because a kind and friendly member may invite you to go for a spin if they're local to you. And, secondly, look at members' cars for sale. I know of one car that the owner has included a multitude of pictures of the inner sills and underneath of the car from when he had it rust protected. This takes a lot of the worry away about the body work.

When I was looking for a car I had a shopping list and stuck to pretty well 90% of my 'must haves'. It took me more than 6 months to find the car I wanted and I have been totally happy with it. I have spent plenty of money on it as well, but that is the way with cars.

If you see avderts for cars then feel free to post them on here and ask for people's opinions. They will be shared freely and you can take or leave the advice and views of members as you see fit.

Good luck in your search!
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by Scartlead »

Hard to say for sure, but going by what you said, I'd walk away. There are very good examples out there, just be prepared to look and travel. Also have a look at the ones for sale on here too.
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by 350matt »

if there's a 2nd engine with the car and its had a load of work done then it may be worth it
how much are they asking ? Did you see if the engine started OK having been shut down from hot then wait 5 mins and see how long it takes then

the shutting down after a start could be something as simple as the MAF needs a clean and then letting it do its idle re-learn do they have a compression measurement?

as a rough guide take a look at the members cars advertised on here as one chap was selling an absolutely mint car for 3500 that had been rust-proofed and had good compression I'd say you can get a 'good ' car for about 2500 that will need a bit of tidying and one with a blown engine could be anything from 200 to 1500 depending on the rest of the car

also budget at least 2.5K for an engine rebuild unless doing it yourself as when I rebuilt mine I spent 1200 just on parts so you can see a rebuild from a reputable builder has to be around 2.5K if you want things to actually be replaced
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by MZ8 »

Thanks for all the warming welcome!

First I must apologize for my incomplete opening post. I typed that late at night and ended up not giving probably the most import piece of information.

I'm currently living in continental Europe. Back in the UK these cars are plentiful and cheap. Not the case here. Actually it is startling how much more expensive cars in general are here.

Banged up RX8s start at around 2.5-3K Euros. Cars with MOT and lower mileage (under 100k km) are priced from 8K with some very low mileage or modified cars going for as high as 15-18K.

About the second car, with the second engine, this is all the info I have so far. He says the engine can't build compression. I have asked him if he did the build himself but he has not yet replied.

But there are several extra parts included in the sell. A second engine, 2 sets of alloys, a new basic engine closing kit and diverse other small parts. It has a K&N filter installed if that is any good.

He said rust is only on the boot lid and wheel arch.

The thing is RX8s are rare here. The one I looked yesterday was the only one I didn't have to drive 2 hours just to see it.
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by kopite72 »

Plenty in the UK which you could import, you just need to get a good one but you're in the right place here for advice.

Read the buyers guide here and make sure you don't buy one without a compression test done with a rotary compression tester. Also coils are a big deal, you'll need to make sure the ignition syeten is in tip top shape so you should budget for a set of Ryan Rotary Performance coils if you're unsure of the history on any potential car you are interested in buying.

If you buy a good one then she'll need regular maintenance like oil changes with a top quality 10/40 semi synthetic oil. Personally I'd recommend Millers oil but it's up to you. Also change the spark plugs every 10K miles or so to keep her running sweet
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Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by GreySilver Beast »

Mod Bit - Moved here as this is your first topic on the RX-8OC :thumright:


Hi MZ8 & :welcome: to the RX-8OC :thumleft:

<<<<<< Please put your Location in your Profile Box, it will help us to know where you are, if required any help in the future :thumright:

Please check out the EVENTS SECTION's for anything coming up soon in your area :thumleft:

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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by MZ8 »

GreySilver Beast wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:30 pm
Mod Bit - Moved here as this is your first topic on the RX-8OC :thumright:


Hi MZ8 & :welcome: to the RX-8OC :thumleft:

<<<<<< Please put your Location in your Profile Box, it will help us to know where you are, if required any help in the future :thumright:
Ok. I will do that. Makes sense.


P.S. I hope people will still see my post here in this section of the forum. :)
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by MZ8 »

kopite72 wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:34 am
Plenty in the UK which you could import, you just need to get a good one but you're in the right place here for advice.
That would be difficult as I would then have a RHD car in LHD land. ;)

Also, since the UK is now out of the EU, I'm sure they would make it extra difficult to import it here. Probably would end being the same or more as buying here.

So if getting a car I know will need a new engine, I should also get new coils? What else should I budget for in this case? Thanks again.

By the way, I thought about joining a local club or forum. Problem is I would never find one in English here. :D
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by SmuttyHutty »

In your shoes I would go and drive a few RX8s and get a feel for the cars and the market. It isn't necessarily true that the engine will need renewing or rebuilding. I am sure that there must be plenty of examples with decent mileage (kilometreage?) and well looked after that have years of life left in the engine.

My main thing was the body work. Rust is a real blight for these cars.

Last autumn I picked up a PZ and wasn't sure of its history and so I replaced all fluids - engine oil, filter, gearbox oil, differential oil, brake fluid (which includes clutch fluid but needs to be bled separately) coolant, air filter. The coils were fine and so were the plugs so I left them. The air filter was new. I replaced cabin filters as well. I also replaced discs and pads all round. And that was before I even began dealing with the things that were wrong with the car.
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by HarSc »

I second Smutty on going and viewing a few RX-8s and get a feel for what they're like. It may take time for you to find some for sale that are local to you, but I wouldn't necessarily be put off from a longer travel time - as you say, they're more thin on the ground and it will be harder to find a good one and one local that ticks all the boxes, but they are definitely still around! Honestly, even in the UK, I ended up driving 5 hours to see one, and still didn't buy it - I feel like it was worth it though, as it made me realise and get a better grasp for what a good condition one is. 8)

Depending on how reputable or if there are many (if any) rotary specialists in your area in Germany that are able to do a rebuild, that will affect what cars you're targeting - in terms of low cost blown engine vs higher cost good running one. I have no idea what it's like on the continent for them, I know we have a few here which is nice :thumleft:

Rust and engine are a big factor, with more emphasis on the bodywork as time has gone on. But all the little bits on a car that will need changing, fluids, breaks, plugs coils and all mechanical maintenance items add up fast, so it is still worth looking and considering for the more pricey good examples if you don't want the challenge or unknowns of bringing a car up to scratch from a worse state.

They are great cars, and there are some good and even stunning examples out there, so don't be afraid to wait or research to find the right one, it's rewarding when you finally get it :lol: :guns:
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by warpc0il »

Just going back to your original post and the scene you describe...

It's not a good idea to start any engine from cold and just leave it running at idle, rather than driving it away.
This is particularly the case with rotary engines, as they have to run extremely rich (fuel heavy) on a cold idle and this doesn't get much better at all if just left idling.
This excess fuel creates lots of water vapour in the exhaust, which then turns to steam (looks like white smoke) if you continue to just leave the engine running.
Meanwhile the PCM has to try and manage the impact of the uneven engine heating, with the battery demanding re-charge to make up for the power taken from the start, which means that the idle speed becomes very uneven and lumpy.

Thus all the behaviour that caused you concern could be explained by the car being left running after the cold start, when it should be driven, and no actual faults at all.

However, it could also have a myriad of real faults that wouldn't come to light unless you drive (or get driven in) it.

Depending on the ambient temperature and the timing, that "noisy starter" may have been a recently fitted 14-tooth hi-power start motor, or it may have been the Secondary Air System pump that blows fresh air into the exhaust manifold for about 20-30 seconds after a (very) cold start to light some of the excess fuel in the exhaust and get the cat up-to-temperature faster. The SAS pump can sound like a small jet engine running under the bonnet.

By the way, please don't be put off by a upgraded starter being fitted. Some here will tell you to walk away from a car being sold with a faster starter "as it's probably hiding low compression", yet those same people will tell new owners that they should fit a faster starter, if theirs is a bit slow. I don't understand why buyers should automatically distrust someone who has already done the right thing...
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by SmuttyHutty »

warpc0il wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:27 am
By the way, please don't be put off by a upgraded starter being fitted. Some here will tell you to walk away from a car being sold with a faster starter "as it's probably hiding low compression", yet those same people will tell new owners that they should fit a faster starter, if theirs is a bit slow. I don't understand why buyers should automatically distrust someone who has already done the right thing...
Absolutely agree on this one. I did loads of reading before committing to an RX8 and the first thing I did was upgrade the starter motor to a 14 tooth 2kw model. I also did loads of research about different starter motors and went for an AS-PL made motor which was recommended to me by a starter motor reconditioning company.

I felt that it would put less stress on the engine to start more rapidly.

However, I have kept the old starter motor and if, in the future, I decide to sell the car I would be more than happy to pop the old one on and show any prospective buyer how the car fires up.

My PZ has the original starter on it and it has the 2nd gen version, I think, and so I do not plan on upgrading this any time soon.
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by MZ8 »

SmuttyHutty wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:27 pm
In your shoes I would go and drive a few RX8s and get a feel for the cars and the market. It isn't necessarily true that the engine will need renewing or rebuilding. I am sure that there must be plenty of examples with decent mileage (kilometreage?) and well looked after that have years of life left in the engine.
Thanks. This is definitely great advice and I would love to do it. Although it might be difficult to do here, with the average driving time to see a single car being about 2 hours.
SmuttyHutty wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:27 pm
My main thing was the body work. Rust is a real blight for these cars.
About the rust, it might be nearly impossible to find a fully rust free here, since they heavily use salt in winter. Specially around the Alps.

I understand if it's structural parts rusted it would be horrible. But if we are talking about body panels such as the boot lid or even wings, is it really that tragic? There are so many RX8 being broke for parts and used parts seem cheap.

I guess the sills would be a reason to walk away? What are the unforgivable rust spots in a RX8? For example with the Alfa Romeo 159, the front subframe is notorious for basically disintegrating because of rust. So it's advisable to walk away from any rusted subframes, regardless of how bad the rust already is. And in countries which use salt, it's nearly impossible to find a 159 without rust on the front subframe. Does the RX8 have any tragic spots for rusts like that?
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by MZ8 »

warpc0il wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:27 am
Just going back to your original post and the scene you describe...

It's not a good idea to start any engine from cold and just leave it running at idle, rather than driving it away.
This is particularly the case with rotary engines, as they have to run extremely rich (fuel heavy) on a cold idle and this doesn't get much better at all if just left idling.
This excess fuel creates lots of water vapour in the exhaust, which then turns to steam (looks like white smoke) if you continue to just leave the engine running.
Meanwhile the PCM has to try and manage the impact of the uneven engine heating, with the battery demanding re-charge to make up for the power taken from the start, which means that the idle speed becomes very uneven and lumpy.

Thus all the behaviour that caused you concern could be explained by the car being left running after the cold start, when it should be driven, and no actual faults at all.

However, it could also have a myriad of real faults that wouldn't come to light unless you drive (or get driven in) it.

Depending on the ambient temperature and the timing, that "noisy starter" may have been a recently fitted 14-tooth hi-power start motor, or it may have been the Secondary Air System pump that blows fresh air into the exhaust manifold for about 20-30 seconds after a (very) cold start to light some of the excess fuel in the exhaust and get the cat up-to-temperature faster. The SAS pump can sound like a small jet engine running under the bonnet.

By the way, please don't be put off by a upgraded starter being fitted. Some here will tell you to walk away from a car being sold with a faster starter "as it's probably hiding low compression", yet those same people will tell new owners that they should fit a faster starter, if theirs is a bit slow. I don't understand why buyers should automatically distrust someone who has already done the right thing...
What you describe is basically how it went. As I said, first the engine was smooth and no white smoke.I was quite happy to see it. Then it started as I described in my OP. So maybe what you describe was the problem. The issue is I was not able to drive the car. I could only look at it and run the engine. I will have a chance to drive it tomorrow or day after.

Are there any signs I should specifically look for when driving to confirm if the smoke was compression related or not? I guess if it drives strong and then once I stop, with the engine warm and idling, it has no smoke and then starts again when hot, it is ok? It will be very difficult to get any car compression tested before buying.

I will try to pain attention to see if the noise at start is how you describe for the Secondary Air System pump. Maybe I can find a video on youtube which shows how this is supposed to sound?
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

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How did you get on with the test drive?
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

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ChrisHolmes wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:32 pm
How did you get on with the test drive?
Hi,

By now I have done a few test drives. Mostly disappointing. :(

I like the car. But finding one in good condition has been a challenge.

Then I got the chance to chat with a local ex-owner who put me off of it for a while. Told some horrors stories and that no matter what he did to try to keep the car healthy there was always something else. Rebuilt the engine twice while he had it. In the last months he had it he couldn't turn the engine off at the petrol station while refilling. He said he loved the car when it worked. But after investing so much money and time and the car would still keep giving trouble he no longer saw a time where the car could just be enjoyed without trouble in the future. So he gave up and just sold it. Said he wished he had seen the light quicker and sold earlier. Would have saved a lot of money and anger. Said he would never do it again. :(
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by ChrisHolmes »

Possible Troll alert
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by MZ8 »

ChrisHolmes wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:20 pm
Possible Troll alert
Why?

Check my other thread, where I started reporting my test drives and checks of cars I was intending to buy. And following the advice of the nice people here on what to check for etc.

But after a few disappointing experiences, plus this ex owner sharing his, I got put off for a while.

Now Im again looking around for a RX8. But i probably will only buy if I find one with a blown engine for a good price . So I put a rebuilt engine in it from the get go and have more piece of mind.
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by Shagrington »

MZ8 wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:38 pm
ChrisHolmes wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:20 pm
Possible Troll alert
Why?
I don't believe Chris meant you and that he was referring to a post (which, with my Mod hat on, I have just removed) from somebody who I believe was spamming or trying to advertise something unrelated.

I hope you won't be entirely put off by the misfortune of one former owner, although it is understandable to have your doubts enhanced by someone who has suffered personally.
By way of offering an alternative personal experience, just for balance, in my case I have had my 2004 RX-8 since 2006. In that time I've had only two occasions where my car broke down (it got me home both times) and needed fixing: on the first the coils burned out unexpectedly - replacements fixed that, no further issues resulted. On the second the oil metering pump failed and put the car into limp mode to get me home - again replacing the pump fixed it and all was good again.

Most of my driving is in town and relatively short journeys (I do try to take it for a decent run out and to exercise the full rev range when I can, so maybe once every two or three weeks, but often it is longer between those drives out, especially over the last 18 months for obvious reasons). I have done things like replacing the oil cooler hoses and I have spent a lot on pre-emptive/precautionary maintenance and various mods etc, but mine has been probably the most reliable car I've owned and it now has over 90,000 miles on the clock and is still on the original engine (which still seems healthy, starts easily whenever etc - I've never had a compression test ... and hopefully I haven't just jinxed it [-o< ).
It does help that I have the advantage (which you don't have around Munich I'd guess) of a couple of very good specialists not too far away and who I have used for all my servicing and maintenance since they set up shop, but Mazda did my services etc for at least the first 4 or 5 years or so.
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by MZ8 »

Thanks. I must confess I was indeed very put off by his experiences. But I'm recovering now. The RX8 is a very unique proposition. :)

By the way, is this an after market bumper? Image

Because if I'm not wrong the lights and fenders are from the earlier cars, even though the bumper looks like the R3.
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by HarSc »

Yeah, that's an aftermarket bumper - if they were to do an OEM R3 bumper, they'd have changed the wings and headlights too. It's got a pretty big smile grille that thing ha! :lol:
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by MZ8 »

I kind of like it. Is the bumper imported like from Japan?
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Re: Looking to join the RX8 family!

Post by HarSc »

I believe it's a Lion's kit front bumper with a custom mesh grille? :-k might be wrong on that - but take a look here
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