New 231 owner - should it even be running

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Oneday
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New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Oneday » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:18 pm

Hello one and all!

Been doing lots of reading on this great forum. Which is why I have a question! Bought a Red 231 in November and have put 1000 joyful miles on it. It's an 07 car with 40,000 miles. It has full service history. Today I went to see a 'specialist' to get a reset service with most things changed. Part of the service was a compression test.....whiiich is, as usual i'm sure, where the question comes from.

Here's the results:

Front - 5.8,6.2,6.1
Rear - 5.1, 5.0, 5.3

After reading up on compression results all over the web. I would think with these results that the car wouldn't start (or struggle to), would flood easily and would idle incorrectly. But this couldn't be further from the truth. It starts on the button hot or cold, it revs cleanly all the way to red line and idles nice and smooth. It's still on it's standard starter too.

If I hadn't had a compression test I would be introducing myself proclaiming I'd bought a good one! But now I have that horrible feeling. Is there anyway this could be wrong? Is it even possible to do a comp test incorrectly??

Would love to hear some more experienced thoughts on this. I'm just hoping (as I wasn't at all impressed with the 'specialist' that perhaps this isn't true!

Any thoughts VERY much appreciated!!

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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Ainmhidh » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:15 pm

Welcome Oneday,
It is possible to do a comp test wrongly, but at least you have three figures - do you know, are they normalised to 250rpm? Some folks here have had lower figures than that and no apparent start problems (for a while at least).

If it's starting well cold and warm and pulling well to the beep (once warm) then forget the comp figures and enjoy the car!
Oh, and put your location in your profile so we know where you are and can make better recommendations for specialists we know and trust / love (steady Nick!)
Also, consider joining the club for access to much more information and specialists discounts. Has it had new plugs and coils ever? at 40k they'd be overdue but not on a standard service schedule. (Also who is your 'specialist'? Nosey enquirers will want to know!!)
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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Conan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:17 pm

Hi and welcome to the forum :thumleft:
First thing to point out is that some cars will run perfectly happily down into the 4.5 region on all faces and that could take you a couple of years or so to see
The second thing is that you haven't given us all the info:
Is that normalized to 250 revs ?
What were the first results at the revs and then normalized to 250.... Post up all the details or print the results as they were given to you.

Buy 2 tins of Cataclean off the net: follow the instructions on the tin
Use the second one a moth or so later and then get compression done again
Take it somewhere else perhaps to see if there's a difference but the cleaner may help boost it.
Cars can run very well with low comp if it's fairly even and they have good ignition components.
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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by 13Black » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:22 pm

Ainmhidh wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:15 pm
(Also who is your 'specialist'? Nosey enquirers will want to know!!)
I can confirm that for once, supposed 'specialist' in quotes isn't referring to me on this occasion :P

Similarly, a customer of mine has one rotor in the low 5s whereas the other is healthy, but it starts every time and pulls fine. I guess this is due to the healthier rotor being sufficient to do most of the work kicking the engine over.

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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Oneday » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:34 pm

Thanks for the speedy replies :)

If I post up the results it would give the game away as he just wrote them on the invoice (and I don't want to light a fire). I don't believe they are a trader on here though. I'm based in Weymouth, Dorset so it's bloomin miles to anyone!

I can't say if they were normalised as they are written on my invoice as I wrote them above - no further info. Car was looked after by Hayward Rotary most recently. They replaced the leads with magnecor and coils with new mazda. That was 2/3 years ago but only 4000 miles ago (owner moved abroad). Funnily enough, the specialist I saw today said the wrong type of HT leads had been fitted as they were ones designed to go on 585's ??! So he changed them for NGK ones.

Wish I hadn't bothered with the comp test!

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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Dazza44 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:34 pm

I had on my other engine one rotor all in the high 6s and the other was 3.2, 3.4 ,5.2 and the car still started hot/cold no problem and pulled fine but probably as nick said the good rotor was probably keeping it going.

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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Ainmhidh » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:42 pm

I'd never suggest any such thing Nick - I've seen you work and I wouldn't put specialist in quotes for you - I might put 'special' though... :rofl: :crazy:

At least the numbers are pretty even across each rotor - I'm told that is kind of a positive! I am blissfully unaware of my compression readings! :lol:
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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Dazza44 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:49 pm

Just a point here but he said the car had leads that are for the 585 coils?, which someone correct me if I'm. Wrong here but the magnecor leads that fit the 585 coils won't fit over the standard coils ?? I know u can get magnecor leads to fit the standard mazda coils(I have then myself), so not sure what he is on about there ??,as I said sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Conan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:51 pm

I think you may be right :roll:
But I have never had anything to do with 585,s so I can't say for sure
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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Dave2112 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:57 pm

Yes that’s right the Magnecor leads that fit the D585’s will not fit anything else
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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Oneday » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:04 pm

Thanks all, i'll try the cataclean and just run it whilst it runs! I was hoping to do my first trackday/sprint this year so I'll see how it goes

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New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by GreySilver Beast » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:33 pm

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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Shagrington » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:34 pm

Hi and :welcome: Oneday. :) I think you may find some interesting reading in this thread started by Carl Hayward viewtopic.php?f=4&t=50209

Looking at the map linked in the list of known rotary specialists here viewtopic.php?f=25&t=36531 it looks like RX Motors http://rxmotors.co.uk/ is possibly your nearest and, as far as I know, they have a good reputation.
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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Rotary Potato » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:40 pm

I had mine compression tested when it was running & starting fine - hot and cold.

All six faces were between 5.0-5.5.

I was slightly disappointed, but shrugged my shoulders and started mentally preparing for a rebuild.

A couple of months later it dropped a side seal, leading to some SERIOUS pressurisation of the sump. As I'd been gearing up for a rebuild, it wasn't a huge shock, I just had a chat with a few specialists on here (all of which were extremely helpful) and worked out exactly what package to go for. I'm now running in my new engine and hoping to get a decent boost in power when I finally get to play with all the revs.

I'd continue to enjoy your car, but start preparing for a failure. It might be weeks, it might be months, it might be years ...
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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by PeteH » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:47 pm

Did the specialist nick your Magnecors and replace them with cheap NGKs? :shock:

Get them back before he flogs them on. :lol:
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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by qwakers » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:15 am

PeteH wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:47 pm
Did the specialist nick your Magnecors and replace them with cheap NGKs? :shock:

Get them back before he flogs them on. :lol:
i knew i couldnt be the only one who was thinking that....

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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Dazza44 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:14 am

If it was the same "specialist" that took ur leads of that did the compression test, personally I'd be very skeptical to say the least, and get a second test done by someone else that's my thoughts.

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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by acegeezer » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:39 am

Use the Doctor analogy.. get a second opinion, I'd make it worthwhile to travel and get it done 'properly' by a known specialist, prevaricating on here can't help.. an actual clarified result is what you require.. and they can verify genuine components are fitted too :thumleft:
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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Oneday » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:58 pm

Thanks everyone. I’ll try to make a trip to see another specialist just so I know. It was tricky with the leads. I got back to the garage and he said ‘yeah, had to change your leads as one one damaged and they were the wrong type’ the. Showed me some damaged magnecor leads. Also changed my brake fluid from 5.1 to dot 4 even though I had said in every email and call that I hoped to track the car.

You know when you leave somewhere and you don’t have that nice fuzzy feeling?!

Thanks for all the advice.

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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by casey » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:08 pm

Thinking of who might be a "local" specialist to you and thought of Tim at RX-Motors in Salisbury. But it can't be Tim you are talking about as he's very conscientious.

If you haven't contacted Tim at RX-Motors then maybe give him a try. Totally knows his Mazda rotaries!
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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Oneday » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:07 am

Sorry guys, been silly busy but still been checking in and out of forum. Didn't want to be one of those annoying new guys that just asks a q then disappears.

So quick update:

I took the car to RX Motors for a second opinion. Spirited drive there in the morning so it was nice and hot when I arrived. He did the test twice as wasn't sure of the readings. This time, 5's on the front, 4's on the rear!!!

I could have cried. I started pre-mixing to see if I could eeek a little more life out of it. Then it started, on rare occasions, taking its time to start. I thought the inevitable was about to happen.

I then stopped wasting money on pre-mix for an engine that was about to fail imminently. That was 3000 miles ago....and it's running absolutely lovely. There are a couple of other things (slight knock at slow speed when manoeuvring from front suspension, and resistance when changing 1st to 2nd or 3rd to 4th. But the engine has no signs of letting go. Starts first twist hot or cold. No CEL lights. Idles fine. Pulls all the way to redline.

I am really surprised. Reading around on the web would make me think with readings as low as 4's it would be fubared, but its absolutely fine. The only annoying thing is the insecurity, not fully enjoying the car as i worry the end is nigh, but if i'd never had a comp test, i wouldn't be worrying!!

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Re: New 231 owner - should it even be running

Post by Dazza44 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:21 am

hi, even though car is showing no signs of dying, not wantimg to put a spanner in the works but with results that low u may well find that it suddenly lets go , my old engime had comp results in low 5s ans other rotor low 3s which also had no symtpoms and pulled fine, but rather than wait for the inevitable jad nee engine.

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