Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

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Eddie_r32
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Eddie_r32 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:42 pm

Four pots will assert equal pressure on both sides of the disc as opposed to single pots, meaning that the force is shared equally between the left and right side of the disc, instead of one side getting slightly hotter than the other, or am I off target?
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Conan » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:47 pm

It can be way better for lots of reasons :)
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by warpc0il » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:03 pm

The biggest difference is that 4-pot calipers are fixed to the brackets, and only the pistons move, applying even pressure to both sides of the disc.

Our OEM calipers are sliding, so the pistons only apply pressure to one side of the disc until this force is sufficient to make the caliper slide and contact the other side, similarly the brake doesn't fully release until the whole caliper slides away.

There is always a delay in this process, made much worse as the slide pins get stiff. Quite often the pins seize such that either the caliper doesn't slide at all and the braking goes from a clamping action to a mere push, or the caliper sticks with the fixed pad in constant contact with disc. The same caliper can even do both, under light vs heavy braking.

It's not uncommon for the pads on one side to be half-worn while the other side it down to the metal.

It's testament to the safety margin you get for having performance car specification brakes, that even when they're operating at less than 50% efficiency, they'll still work in day-to-day traffic and even pass the MOT!

Even with good maintenance, the need for the caliper to slide means that it must have some clearance on the pins, such that it will move with the rotation of the disc.

So, from an engineering perspective, opposed piston calipers (even just 2-pot like my old Alfa) are superior to sliding calipers, they're just more expensive to make, and you need to go to 4-pots to get the width down enough to fit inside alloys.
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Rotary Potato » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:51 pm

To be honest, if you can lock the tyres (or these days cause ABS to kick in) then you need a tyre upgrade, not a brake upgrade. You can't brake harder than the forces your tyres can transmit to the road.
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by warpc0il » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:08 pm

It's not all about power, but control.
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Conan » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:37 pm

:) Dave is correct of course,
Locking your tyres is the slowest way around a track and even getting the abs working is not necessary.
You merely stroke the brakes into the apex as you would a good woman and get hard on the throttle at the earliest opportunity.
Smoothness is the key to culmination.
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by zippyonline » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:10 pm

warpc0il wrote:It's not all about power, but control.
I think that's pirelli's strap line or something.

'Power is nothing without control'
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by warpc0il » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:15 pm

and there's me thinking that this was a Pirelli strap line... 8) :roll:

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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Antz41 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:49 am

I looked into this heavily and spoke with Freaky Parts about a kit and also looked at the Nissan 300ZX calipers for the race car.

After lots of conversations, research, weighing and everything else, we concluded the standard brakes to be more than capable, even with stock discs and ABS provided you spec the pads right. A BBK will not slow you any quicker as has already been said, the tyres have more affect.

A BBK may save some unsprung weight on the caliper front, but that's offset against any brackets and/or increase rotor size and weight.

Our conclusions which of course may not be mirrored will see us reinstalling the early spec Hitachi ABS on Black Diamond discs with either Cobalt or Hawk pads and braided lines. Nothing more required other than driver skills and as Pete says, control.

My PZ on the other hands will more than likely get a BBK of some kind but that's only for aesthetics and to look good behind trick wheels


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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by zippyonline » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:58 pm

Antz41 wrote:
My PZ on the other hands will more than likely get a BBK of some kind but that's only for aesthetics and to look good behind trick wheels
What like those stick on ones :lol:

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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Antz41 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:38 pm

we had a supercharged 8 come in with those in the boot


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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by RX8Pete » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:43 am

bunch1980 wrote:From my motorcycling also read that the more pots seem to give more feel at the lever on braking but may not carry over in cars.

Interestingly some 4 pots on bikes have individual pads for each piston so 4 pads per caliper.
They also have different diameters as on Aprilias that are fitted with Brembo 4 pot x 320mm braking systems as standard (I have an Aprlia Falco) & they have 32mm & 34mm pistons. Have yet to experience a better standard system on a bike that has great initial bite & feel (using HH sintered pads) & so fade free (as experienced on a track day at Brands where you're on & off the brakes a LOT on a bike).
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:50 pm

Antz41 wrote:I looked into this heavily and spoke with Freaky Parts about a kit and also looked at the Nissan 300ZX calipers for the race car.

After lots of conversations, research, weighing and everything else, we concluded the standard brakes to be more than capable, even with stock discs and ABS provided you spec the pads right. A BBK will not slow you any quicker as has already been said, the tyres have more affect.

A BBK may save some unsprung weight on the caliper front, but that's offset against any brackets and/or increase rotor size and weight.

Our conclusions which of course may not be mirrored will see us reinstalling the early spec Hitachi ABS on Black Diamond discs with either Cobalt or Hawk pads and braided lines. Nothing more required other than driver skills and as Pete says, control.

My PZ on the other hands will more than likely get a BBK of some kind but that's only for aesthetics and to look good behind trick wheels Image


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For me it does come down to aesthetics as much as anything. As I think I've said in either this thread or the group buy, sat behind the 19" R3 rims the brakes just look a little weedy! I know they're more than sufficient for track days etc., and that the discs are actually quite large in diameter, but still.

If I get better heat dissipation, less un-sprung weight and maybe a more progressive pedal feel then happy days :)
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