Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

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Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Elektix » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:55 pm

Rightio,

I'm broke, and interested in seeing if it's at all possible to finally crack this cheap BBK conundrum.

I've got myself some very cheap 4 pots. I know an adapter is available, although I will try and get one made up instead to save on costs etc.

So the engineering questions.

Can you fit larger discs to a standard calliper? I understand the calliper would require a bracket to move it out slightly etc.
Although the callipers I have come across fit a 296mm disc as standard, and I will be looking to put C.323mm size standard discs, but thicker.

Also, the callipers are designed for 32mm thick discs. How thin could I get away with safely do people think? 30mm? 28mm? Plus a couple of mm of wear on top of that.

Thoughts?

So far I've found one disc which may kind of work, 320mm x 28mm. The front bore fits, the rear bore is 1mm smaller, I'm hoping they will still fit. 3mm higher and 1.4kg heavier, but I'm hoping the aluminium callipers will offset the weight difference. Ultimately I would like to move onto two piece discs eventually :)

Many thanks for your inputs, help and crack pot theories,

Nick
Last edited by Elektix on Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Sonic KaBoomii » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:07 pm

So much more to DIY brake kits than this ...and they rarely work out cheaper


Rear discs won't fit. You'll have to get the bore machined out.

What's the offset on the discs ? How thick are your adapter brackets going to be ? What's the pad sweep on the discs you've found and how deep are the new pads ?
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Eddie_r32 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:21 pm

If you know the specs of disc you want contact mtec, I have done a brembo conversion on a Honda and they helped me out
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by ChrisHolmes » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:26 pm

First question is "why do you feel you need larger brakes" fir track days the std calipers and discs with uprated pads should be fine.

the calipers you have acquired I presume are mounted with bolts in the same orientation as the existing calipers which is the first problem to overcome. BBK calipers seem to usually have adapters that have bolt holes to mount them to the existing hub lugs and then two more at right angles to these which bolt to the caliper. The caliper mounting holes are therefore facing aft. I hope that clear. Designing a bracket to accommodate the std caliper bolt orientation for a non std larger caliper will quite a challenge. Remember your life, and the life of others, can depend on the brakes not failing so if your bracket is not correctly engineered your asking for serious trouble.
You can get a new 4 - 6 pot kit of disc, caliper and adapters for just under £1000 and drive with citied de all the parts are matched and properly engineered.
It's your call and i do understand the satisfaction and savings of your own brake conversion but is the safety risk worth it?
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Elektix » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:30 pm

Need to get some slightly oversized pads, but I've heard other people managing to get them for my 4 pots.

Then I just need to get the spacers worked out.

Thanks Eddie, I will have to have a word with them. I'm hoping to make this a cheap project. If it starts to cost me much, I'll likely make a few kits to sell.
Last edited by Elektix on Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Elektix » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:35 pm

Well when I move onto semi slick next, I'm going to be working the brakes even harder. I've had uprated brakes for a long time now, I can't really out brake the tyres yet when warm and get fade eventually after some hard use.

Seems the next logical step to me, especially with increased cooling, bit of weight saving from the callipers. And eventually weight saving from some two piece discs.

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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Eddie_r32 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:37 pm

I use my brakes less on semi slicks as you can carry more speed into the corners.
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Conan » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:44 pm

I,m thinking of making my brakes smaller and lighter
I don,t use them anyway ;)
Pete
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Sonic KaBoomii » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:06 pm

This is the sort of thing you'll need for the calipers ...but for a 14.5mm difference in radius you'll have to swing the caliper round to maintain a safe edge distance on both sets of holes

Image

What's the offset on the discs? You might be able to take up some of any difference with a custom shim stuck to the inner/outer pad to reduce the 32mm thickness, but if it's significantly different you'll have to build that into your brackets ...and make sure you've got clearance to the back of the wheel spokes
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by ChrisHolmes » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:52 pm

Looks like a well thought out set up. Easily dimensionally variable adaptor design.
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by shambo » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:46 am

Conan wrote:I,m thinking of making my brakes smaller and lighter
I don,t use them anyway ;)
Pete
just remove them altogether... weight reduction :)
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Essex2Visuvesi » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:40 pm

Confusious say "He who Brakes last shall be first"
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by mzivtins » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:29 pm

Elektix wrote:Rightio,

I'm broke, and interested in seeing if it's at all possible to finally crack this cheap BBK conundrum.

I've got myself some very cheap 4 pots. I know an adapter is available, although I will try and get one made up instead to save on costs etc.

So the engineering questions.

Can you fit larger discs to a standard calliper? I understand the calliper would require a bracket to move it out slightly etc.
Although the callipers I have come across fit a 296mm disc as standard, and I will be looking to put C.323mm size standard discs, but thicker.

Also, the callipers are designed for 32mm thick discs. How thin could I get away with safely do people think? 30mm? 28mm? Plus a couple of mm of wear on top of that.

Thoughts?

So far I've found one disc which may kind of work, 320mm x 28mm. The front bore fits, the rear bore is 1mm smaller, I'm hoping they will still fit. 3mm higher and 1.4kg heavier, but I'm hoping the aluminium callipers will offset the weight difference. Ultimately I would like to move onto two piece discs eventually :)

Many thanks for your inputs, help and crack pot theories,

Nick
Good idea on the two piece discs, i have 356mm discs with 8 pot calipers, and every component is light than stock.

What are the 4 pots you are going for?

Essentially a BBK is exactly what you are trying to do yourself, where i bought a full car kit, you'd save money of going through the personal work of spec-ing out adapters and getting them made.

For disc offset, you caliper bracket should take care of that. I am 100% certain that going to a local machine shop in the UK to build your brackets will net you a quality piece. Far better quality than you can expect from buying anything abroad, and it will be cheaper!

If you can take the time to get the brackets measured up to fit a more common 4 pot caliper, you could easily sell brackets on.

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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:30 pm

Holy Thread Ressurection Batman!

Basically, having had a bit of a gander at the Brake Caliper Colour discussion thread it got me thinking. And googling/ eBaying. You can pick up a set of Wilwood 4 pot calipers which fit 323x28mm discs for about £270 which seems quite cheap... Just need a bracket to fit them...

I have emailed a specialist but have no idea what the measurements would be. I can't see a set of calipers, pads and brackets to be much more than £400 all in? I guess it's just the 'R&D' time to make sure the caliper is the right size...

Merging a few threads in to this post, FreakyParts already offer the above for the NC MX5 (which can take the RX8 calipers) so can't imagine it would be that tricky. The setup listed on FreakyParts.co.uk for the MX5 is £680 - still more expensive than a DIY for sure, but quite a bit cheaper than a BBK
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by tayfun » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:40 pm

I know that bmw e38 does have front 4pot brembos, I don't know what situation on that in UK, but in Eastern Europe you can get them for £80-100, but they need some non-standart discs, but in total this might be the cheapest BBK solution

But if you have slightly bigger budget - Porsche's/Audio's 6pot looks waaay better on RX8, especially in candy red colour :shock:

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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Velocity_Dan93 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:48 pm

Cheapest branded kit you can get is the k sport 330. Comes in at under 950 delivered with everything you need except brake fluid
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Eddie_r32 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:34 pm

I would go the tayfun route, buy some brembo four pots (make sure they are fronts if you are looking at the Porsche ones) and see what lines up where and what's needed for a bracket, then do some measurements on what size discs you need, would prob all be easier to mock up on a old hub.
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:06 am

Right guys,

I've been in touch with FreakyParts who offer a 'bolt on' caliper upgrade for the NC MX5. I enquired about an RX8 kit and the response was fairly positive. They are currently investigating costs (as well as group buy discounts) but it's looking like £500-600 for the calipers, pads and mounts to go on the existing discs. The kit is based on AP Racing calipers and looks like this:
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by ChrisHolmes » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:17 am

If the discs are not a larger diameter, thicker than standard and the pad area greater then what is the advantage of the bolt on kit performance wise?
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by zippyonline » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:30 am

ChrisHolmes wrote:what is the advantage of the bolt on kit performance wise?
No dust seals, so they need servicing more often Image

I do actually know the possible answer to this - but need to check some equations. 4 opposed pistons vs 1 single is likely to have an actual greater surface area - so even if the pads are the same size, it's more effective, plus opposed pistons gives a higher chance of better pedal feel and greater modulation (yes yes, I know many other factors at play).

Obviously not anywhere near that simple - but most likely answers - more analysis needed with more specifics for a proper answer ;)

They do look cooler though.

But for a street car, I quite like my dust seals thanks.
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:32 am

A fair question, which I'm not 100% sure about. The fact that there are more pistons and a more even spread of pressure must be beneficial, as well as a presumably higher maximum pressure achievable? That said, the RX8s brakes aren't left wanting.

Beyond this it comes down to a bit of behind-wheel-bling, as they look badass... I have found this especially with the R3 as the calipers look tiny sat behind them - admittedly, this is due to having hoofing great wheels...

EDIT: Beaten to the punch lol
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:40 am

El-goog came to the rescue with this:

http://www.autos.com/aftermarket-parts/ ... ve-braking

According to this article the principle is that if you track your car and suffer from toasty brakes then 4-pot calipers would assist with this, likewise it will give a firmer brake pedal feel.

And 'they look badass' has been confirmed by an independent adjudicator :D
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by bunch1980 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:21 am

From my motorcycling also read that the more pots seem to give more feel at the lever on braking but may not carry over in cars.

Interestingly some 4 pots on bikes have individual pads for each piston so 4 pads per caliper.

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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:03 am

I've set up an initial interest group buy for the above if people are... Interested... :S lol.

http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/vi ... 44&t=73096
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Re: Custom cheapo Big Brake Kit.

Post by ChrisHolmes » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:12 pm

Dan.NJ72 wrote:El-goog came to the rescue with this:

http://www.autos.com/aftermarket-parts/ ... ve-braking

According to this article the principle is that if you track your car and suffer from toasty brakes then 4-pot calipers would assist with this, likewise it will give a firmer brake pedal feel.

And 'they look badass' has been confirmed by an independent adjudicator :D
A great read and buried in there is the gem of larger discs being necessary as part of the set up, hence big brake, so as to increase the cooling surface. My interpretation of that is that 4 pot calipers on standard discs will only make a cosmetic difference, albeit a very nice one.
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