home build turbo kit

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home build turbo kit

Post by gazipswich » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:09 pm

is it a viable option to build your own turbo kit? have tried searching but cant find. thanks and rough cost

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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Dadiodude » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:26 pm

You'd have to have a manifold manufactured, inter cooler, induction, oil lines and then the tricky issue of electronics so not really. Better to buy a used kit and refurb it. Remember that you wouldn't really want to turbo an old engine so there is the possible cost of a rebuild to consider as well.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Will66 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:27 pm

It's possible. But it would take a lot of work.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by liambeattie1 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:58 pm

so with a fresh engine is a turbo kit going to shorten the life of the engine more so than an engine that is neglected by joe public?

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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by BIG-Mal » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:14 pm

Best bet, buy a premanufactured kit specific for the car aswell as for the specific power expected. The costs of manifold intake ecu, injectors, fuel pump, specific turbo "yes there's massive options & so many ways to screw it up"

A premanufactured,tested, known kits is by fare the best & overall safest way to go forward. Engine rebuilds can & will happen no matter what "it's a risk anyone & everyone has to face"

Luxuries such as traction control etc, yes there's aftermarket units to give this more capabilities to cope with the increase power but to be honest, if you can handle powerful cars then realistically it's not really necessary. Uprating the brakes is a must, possible exhaust upgrades maybe needed to help the general flow if your using the standard exhaust still. But for a general note supercharger kits would probably be an easier choice & maybe a cheaper option.

Not forgetting the tuning costs as any ecu would need mapping.

Technically fitting a turbo would be pretty easy, the electronics & tuning is the tricky part & the costly part then ontological of that theres the cool gadget route, boost controllers, displays, gauges, vdu's blar blar
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by BIG-Mal » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:22 pm

I don't get this, any performance mod turbo, s/charger, air filter etc can effect wear n tear, even simple choice of oil can effect these engines
How you drive, low oil levels, not allowing warming up etc wrong fuels. These engines have 3 seals the apex seals which wear out these are the weak points.
Adding a 3rd oil injector like the yanks had for there rx8's we got dumped for apparently 2 like the early generation rx7's
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Will66 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:17 pm

The 3rd injector was fitted on all the Series 2 RX8s.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by BIG-Mal » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:31 am

Hmmm yeh but isnt he running a s1 like me......
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Dadiodude » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:51 am

Yes but as Will said, the additional oil lines were only fitted to R3s - no S1 has them regardless of market.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Will66 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:30 am

And since series 2 engines seem to be failing anyway it would appear that they're not a great solution to the problem. Any engine that you're going to apply F/I really needs to be built to cope with it. Uprated seals, higher oil pressure and probably Sohn adapter to run high spec fully synthetic oil will be essential for a long-lived motor. If I was going F/I I would seriously be looking at water or methanol injection too.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by RX8R3Rod » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:39 pm

And one senior rotary engineer from Mazda has been quoted as saying, 'if you're going to FI the RX8, do it within the first couple of thousand miles ...'. Hmmmm.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Dadiodude » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:56 pm

Of course - then Mazda don't have to warranty it :)

My understanding is that the side ports aren't ideal for a turbo and Mazda suggested that a blower is more suited. But with Petitt no longer offering the supercharger the options seem a bit thin on the ground.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Bulldog » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:25 pm

If you look at my thread youll see what Will and Rod have said is what I am doing.

I am building an uprated engine with cold hardened seals and bearings. It will be running on fully syth oil with a sohn adapter providing clean 2 stroke into the combustion chamber. I will be using an uprated oil pressure regulator and new upgraded oil cooler lines. A turbo needs fully synthetic oil as it spins very fast 200k rpm is not unheard of and the standard greddy turbo only has oil cooling. I intend running this engine in gently.

Then I am going to install an apexi boost controller, a turbo timer and an adaptronics ecu and sensors/gauging.

Then using a bolt on greddy kit as the initial template we will add the FI at about 5psi and get the system working / tuned. Then I will slowly move over to a completely custom set up.

So in answer yes I believe whilst not easy it is possible to build your own kit.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Will66 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:37 pm

:whathesaid:

All the people I've talked to about this say that to F/I an RX8 you need to build the engine for it. Bulldog is doing it the right way particularly with the Adaptronic ECU. If it was me I'd look at water injection too.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Phil Bate » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:31 am

What are the thoughts on the [urlw=http://www.mazdaparts.com/products/Esme ... eals-.html]Esmeril apex seals[/urlw] as opposed to hardened ones? I want to turbo probably late this year/next year and will rebuild before hand, but I want longevity balanced with torque so have been thinking about these
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Dadiodude » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:50 am

I don't think they're made for longevity but more for race/drag engines that are regularly pulled down. They're a vulnerable engine so however you approach FI I think you have to assume something will fail at some point. Pity that a three rotor is so expensive as that would be the obvious way to go for a reliable 300bhp (ish) N/A.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by RX8R3Rod » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:29 am

It's quite instructive to have a look on the FI sections on RX8club and see the mileages people tend to get when they go FI. There are not too many that get very high mileages.

It's also interesting that Mazdaspeed experimented with, and then abandoned, (electric) supercharging between around 2004 - 2006.

Based on the mileages a lot of people seem to report FI seems fine if you've got some cash and it's not so much of a daily drive car but if you keep it in the garage and bring it out on nice sunny days at weekends for a blast that would probably be ideal, it looks to me.

I should think Bulldog is going to get about the very best possible life from his set up, as he's doing all the right things, as far as any of us can say. :D
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Phil Bate » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:51 am

With the seals I was thinking about not causing damage to the housings. As said with FI something is going to break earlier than normal, so it wouldn't be so bad swapping the seals out now and again when they bend if the housings haven't been all scored up. I presume they are only going to get more scarce in supply with no one reconditioning them?
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Will66 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:48 pm

The premature damage to the seals is generally caused by detonation, which is generally the motor running too lean on boost. The softer seals prevent seal damage hurting the housings. It's an F/I racing modification that's designed to save housings at rebuild time rather than prolong the engine's life between rebuilds. If you get the oiling, seals and ignition right, tune it properly and don't get too demanding with the boost levels then you should be able to get decent life from a boosted motor. Water injection also works to help engine life on boosted motor but that's another huge subject.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Bulldog » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:48 pm

We had a debate about this but settled on the cryro atkins seals and I will be adding a water injection system ..heat is the enemy of FI power
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by madder » Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:45 am

Should be interesting as there are two of us going FI this year.

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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by Timmy2 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:49 pm

Anyone ever thought about mounting the turbo under the car where the silencer normally goes or in place of the Cat.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by warpc0il » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:57 pm

It's possible and if you're only interested in producing max-power, either for the dyno or drag racing, then it can even be effective.
However, for a road or track car, the throttle delay makes it less than useless.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by 13Black » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:41 pm

Rear mount turbos are so aids, and space under the bonnet isn't exactly the leading issue why more aren't turbocharged.
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Re: home build turbo kit

Post by PeteH » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:09 pm

I've never seen anyone actually prove the lag thing. It's "received wisdom" that it must create lag, because, well, it's obvious.... But the exhaust gasses take milliseconds to reach a rear mount turbo, and the pressure side builds so quickly that in the tests I've seen there is no discernible difference, regardless of where the turbo is. The major issue with a rear mount just seems to be the practicalities. You have to have a high temperature / pressure pipe (effectively a downpipe) running the length of the car. Then you need another high pressure feedpipe running back up the car. Then you need to pipe an oil feed and possibly water cooling from the engine to the turbo. Arranging the turbo control, BOV etc. needs more planning. You can't fit the cat until after the turbo. And you still need some kind of silencer. It's all just way more complicated and heavy. And it's inefficient because the exhaust gas is relatively cold by the time it reaches the turbo, so you need a bigger turbo to compensate (which does potentially create more lag, so I'll give you that Warpc0il ;) ). Basically, your precious engine power is being used to heat the atmosphere via an enormous downpipe...

As Mr. Black correctly says, you'd only do it if you didn't have space for a front mount. And under bonnet space is one thing we have lots of.
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